HC Deb 11 February 1976 vol 905 cc431-3
10. Lord James Douglas-Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the progress made towards the implementation of his policy that grant-aided schools be fully integrated in the public system of education as comprehensive schools.

The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Frank McElhone)

I have nothing to add to the reply that I gave to the hon. Gentleman on 10th December.—[Vol. 902, c. 451–2.]

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that since that date there have been 135 applications in Edinburgh to withdraw children from grant-aided schools and accommodate them in local authority schools, and a further 105 inquiries, making a total of 240 in all? Is he also aware that as soon as the increased fee structure to be announced by the Merchant Company comes forward that figure will substantially increase? Will he confirm that it is the Government's policy that where families cannot accommodate their children at these schools they should be allowed places at local authority schools? Is he aware that I shall be most grateful if he will confirm this fact and keep the subject under review?

Mr. McElhone

I am interested in the hon. Member's figures, but the figures that I have are very different. In the 21 months between January 1974 and September 1975 there was a fall-out of 201 secondary school pupils—an average of 10 a month—which is hardly a dramatic figure. Of course we shall provide education for the pupils, and we have said we shall consider the position again if the situation at Mary Erskine School becomes very severe.

Mr. Teddy Taylor

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that the policy decision on the Mary Erskine School shows that his alleged offer of choice to direct grant schools is a total sham? Will he confirm that the Government's policy is creating great hardship for many parents of limited resources because of the substantial increase in fees, and also that the policy is creating an educational shambles in Edinburgh—a shambles that has been condemned by the Socialist Convener of the Lothian Regional Council?

Mr. McElhone

I do not accept that. What worries me is that during the past four months at Scottish Question Time repeated reference has been made to one grant-aided school. Are the hon. Members for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Taylor) and Edinburgh Pentlands (Mr. Rifkind) representing certain seats in Glasgow and Edinburgh or are they representing the Mary Erskine School? As the managers of the school have repeatedly stated, the long-term result of paying £3 million for Mary Erskine would be to ensure that the other Merchant Company fee-paying grant-aided schools would continue. That is not the Government's policy.

Mr. Canavan

If the Merchant Company is genuinely concerned about educational provision for all children and not just about getting its hands on some money through the sale of Mary Erskine's, to enable it to continue with its other over-privileged fee-paying schools, will my hon. Friend ask the Merchant Company whether it is prepared to give the Lothian Region the free use of the school building for comprehensive education until such time as the region can afford to buy it?

Mr. McElhone

I should accept that offer with gratitude.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

The hon. Gentleman's answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart[...] (Mr. Taylor) was disgraceful. He is saying that his policy is not in the interests of the parents or of the children but is merely to spite the Merchant Company of Edinburgh. Let the hon. Gentleman say so straight out if that is what his policy is.

Mr. McElhone

We get fed up with seeing mechanical jack-in-the-boxes jumping up from the Opposition Benches to ask questions about this school. I hope that the machine will be switched off. The only inference the Government can draw from repeated questions from hon. Gentlemen about one grant-aided school is that hon. Members must be very happy with the Labour Government in Scotland.