§ Q2. Mr. Robinsonasked the Prime Minister when he last met the CBI.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply which my right hon. Friend the Lord President of the Council gave on my behalf to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) on 30th November.
§ Mr. RobinsonWhen my right hon. Friend next meets the CBI, will he put to it in a constructive spirit that the social contract should be accompanied by an industrial contract from the employers giving a firm commitment to increase investment and employment as a necessary continuation of an incomes policy?
§ The Prime MinisterThe CBI, with which we are having regular discussions on these matters, understands that industry should try to make a response to what is being done at present. I notice that the TUC called on employers to make as positive a response to the future of the country as that already undertaken by trade unionists, who have given 100 per cent. support to the £6 policy and the 5 per cent. policy. The CBI welcomed the new measures. As the TUC said, we need to see that translated practically in terms of expansion in investment, in output and in jobs. I shall convey what my hon. Friend has said to the CBI, but my understanding is that the leaders of the CBI are as intent on securing an increase in investment as are the Government and everyone in the country, I believe, except the right hon. Lady the Leader of the Opposition.
§ Mr. TebbitWill the right hon. Gentleman explain two things to the CBI? First, will he explain why he never answers Questions at Question Time? Secondly, will he explain why it is that the longer the Government stay in office the further away they get from their objectives of lowering unemployment, which is rising, of lowering inflation, which is worse than when the Government took office, and of increasing production, which is still stagnant at the levels that prevailed when the Government came into office?
§ The Prime MinisterI dare say that it is a little discouraging to the hon. Gentleman that the CBI and ourselves are able to discuss these matters in a rational atmosphere and that the CBI is as aware of the problems as anyone else, although it does not place the same construction on these matters as the hon. Gentleman does for party reasons. As for particular issues, I have already said that in my view inflation will continue to come down next year after a period if we—
§ Mr. TebbitThe right hon. Gentleman said that last year.
§ The Prime MinisterI did say it last year and it halved, if the hon. Gentleman followed it. It has come down from 27 per cent. and has halved, and it will continue to go down if we can maintain yet another round in wage increases within reasonable margins. I have always tried—I shall always try, despite the jeers of Opposition Members—to put the position as straight as I can. That is the first thing. The second point is that, because of the impact of these policies—I repeat what I have said before if it is any comfort to the hon. Gentleman—I fear that unemployment is going to rise next year. I have tried to put that as straight as possible. However, we shall overcome these difficulties not by jeers or gibes but only by following the long-term policy that the Government intend to carry out.
§ Mr. AshleyIs my right hon. Friend aware that the House will be deeply disturbed to learn that unemployment will rise? When he next discusses unemployment with the CBI, will he bear in mind that the Government's concern for the unemployed is in stark contrast to the 460 crocodile tears shed by Opposition Members, who regard the unemployed basically as scroungers? Will he try to explain to the House how the Government can justify giving £120 million to reduce unemployment and taking away £150 million in terms of the regional employment premium?
§ The Prime MinisterTo answer my hon. Friend's last point first, there will be an opportunity to debate these matters but it is the Government's view, shared, I think, by many in industry, that the redistribution of the assistance that is given by the Government is better than clinging to the old system, which was useful in its time but which we think has now outgrown its usefulness. As for my hon. Friend's first point, we all know the policy that the Conservative Opposition would like us to follow, which would produce a much greater degree of unemployment than is likely to arise now.
§ Mr. PriorPerhaps the Prime Minister will find time during the course of the rest of the day to explain to the country why the Secretary of State for Energy remains in office at a time when the Minister for Overseas Development has to leave it.
§ The Prime MinisterThe Minister for Overseas Development does not have to leave office. He can choose for himself whether he decides to stay, but I have not sacked him.
§ Mr. WatkinsonWill my right hon. Friend consider the fact that world expansion, especially in the industrial West, is now foundering? Will he undertake to initiate talks with Western leaders in the new year to stimulate world trade?
§ The Prime MinisterI regard this as extremely important because, although the Opposition will always try to blind the country's eyes to it, in fact unemployment is growing throughout the world and is a disease of the Western industrial system at present. The policies that will be followed by the new American Administration will be extremely important in this matter. I shall take an early opportunity of exchanging views with them to try to get a recovery both in confidence among those who invest in new plant and machinery throughout the world and in expansion of the American economy.