HC Deb 17 December 1976 vol 922 cc2049-66

5.12 p.m.

The Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. James A. Dunn)

I beg to move, That the Police (Northern Ireland) Order 1976, a draft of which was laid before this House on 7th December, be approved. The purpose of this order is to introduce an independent element into the procedures for handling complaints against the police in Northern Ireland. The need for an independent element can be said to have its origins in the belief that justice should not only be done, it should manifestly be seen to be done. I am satisfied that in the handling of complaints the Royal Ulster Constabulary already affords utmost priority to such inquiry and action as may be necessary. Indeed, the Gardiner Committee, which considered measures against terrorism in the context of civil liberties and human rights, noted in its report that: The procedures for investigating complaints against members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary are more thorough than those at present in existence anywhere else in the United Kingdom. Although the Committee was thus emphatic that complaints were fully investigated, it nevertheless recognised a certain disquiet and a lack of public confidence in a system by which the police themselves are solely and absolutely responsible for dealing with complaints against members of the force. The Committee went on to express the view that the introduction of an independent element into the procedures could be an important step towards restoring universal confidence in the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

The proposals in the draft order do not therefore stem from any lack of confidence on my part, or that of my ministerial colleagues, in the ability or the will of the Royal Ulster Constabulary to deal promptly, properly and justly, with complaints made against it. Rather, the proposals are a recognition that our confidence is not always wholly shared by others in Northern Ireland. The order accordingly represents an endeavour both to dispel the unease, which has not, of course, been confined to the procedures in Northern Ireland, that the handling of complaints rests solely with the police themselves, and moreover to reinforce the growing acceptability of the Royal Ulster Constabulary in the community at large.

Before I turn to the provisions of the order, it may be helpful if I outline very briefly the existing complaints procedure. As in Great Britain, the Chief Constable is under a statutory duty to record and have investigated any complaint made against a police officer by a member of the public. Unless satisfied that no criminal offence has been committed, the Chief Constable must send the report of the investigating officer to the Attorney-General and the Director of Public Prosecutions. In addition—and this is an important difference between the procedure in Northern Ireland and England and Wales—the Chief Constable is required to send to the DPP the report on the investigation of any complaint alleging a criminal offence by a member of the RUC. Decisions as to whether disciplinary charges are to be preferred are made by the Chief Constable, but in the case of a reference to the Director of Public Prosecutions such a decision is deferred until the DPP has decided whether to initiate criminal proceedings and, if so, until after those proceedings have taken place. If disciplinary proceedings are taken, the complainant is allowed to attend the hearing in order to give evidence and to put questions to the accused officer.

The draft order follows the recommendation of the Northern Ireland Working Party on Complaints Procedure that revised arrangements for the RUC should be similar to those proposed in what is now the Police Act 1976, and the arrangements outlined in the order correspond closely with the provisions of that Act, with one additional feature in Article 4 to which I shall refer in a moment. The order provides for the establishment of a Police Complaints Board for Northern Ireland, to which are to be sent copies of the reports of police investigations into complaints. The board is empowered, in certain circumstances, to require that disciplinary charges be preferred against a police officer, or that they be heard by a tribunal on which the board is represented.

I come now to the detailed provisions of the order. Article 2 deals with interpretation, and in particular provides that the order is to apply to the regular RUC and the full-time Reserve. Part-time reservists are essentially volunteers and not career officers, and hence when a disciplinary offence is committed by a part-time reservist the sanctions available to the Chief Constable are limited to a reprimand or dismissal. As with the arrangements for special constables in England and Wales, it was thought inappropriate to provide the board with a statutory locus in these cases.

Article 3 and the schedule provide for the appointment by the Secretary of State of a Police Complaints Board for Northern Ireland and for the administration of the board. Aticle 4 is the additional feature of the Northern Ireland scheme, and it requires that the Chief Constable send to the board a copy of a complaint as soon as it is received by him. The intention is that the board will thus be aware at the outset of every complaint against members of the full-time force, Regular and Reserve, and will have a record of these complaints.

Article 5 provides for police investigation reports to be referred to the board, together with notification as to whether the Chief Constable has preferred disciplinary charges against the officer concerned.

Article 6 provides that, where disciplinary charges have been preferred, the board may recommend that they be heard by a tribunal on which the board is represented; where no charges have been preferred, the board may recommend and, in the last resort, direct, that they should be preferred.

Article 7 provides for the hearing of charges by a tribunal.

Under article 8 investigation reports are not to be sent to the board until the Director of Public Prosecutions has dealt with the question of criminal proceedings. When the reports are subsequently received by the board and where it appears to it that any information relevant to the question of criminal proceedings has not been furnished to the DPP, it may request that it be transmitted to him.

Article 9 empowers the Secretary of State to make regulations as to procedure, and Article 10 empowers the Board to arrange to undertake corresponding functions in respect of complaints against members of "private" police forces in Northern Ireland. The article also contains a default provision under which the Secretary of State is empowered to make such arrangements by order.

Articles 11 and 12 require the board to make an annual report to the Secretary of State, and make it an offence for a board member or officer improperly to disclose information.

Provision is made in Articles 13 and 15 for amendments to the RUC discipline regulations and to the appeals regulations. Article 14 provides a statutory safeguard against double jeopardy for police officers.

The opportunity has been taken in Articles 16 and 17 to make two amendments of an administrative nature to the Police Act (Northern Ireland) 1970.

Article 16 relaxes the prohibition on the Police Association being associated with any outside body or person, and thus brings the police representative bodies in Northern Ireland into line with their counterparts in Great Britain.

Article 17 will no doubt commend itself to the House in reducing the bureaucratic procedures necessary to bring increases in certain police allowances into effect. As now, police regulations will specify the conditions under which the allowances are payable, but the amounts of those allowances, which are subject to fairly frequent review, will be determined by the Secretary of State instead of being prescribed by the issue of amending regulations. The new procedure, which is already established practice in England and Wales, has the full support of the Police Association and the Police Authority.

The RUC is a force earning increasing respect, and it is a young force, led by an energetic and dedicated Chief Constable. Each month sees a new intake of recruits further to add to the 3,000 or so officers who have joined since 1970. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State referred to this on the earlier order. It is an expanding, forward-looking force, operating in a society which is itself changing.

The legacy of past distrust is gradually diminishing as the men and women of the RUC demonstrate that the service they provide is for the whole community. They continue to face a tremendously dangerous and difficult task, and those who come into contact with them cannot fail to be impressed by their courage and dedication. I am satisfied that the introduction of the procedures in the order will assist the force to demonstrate the integrity and impartiality of the police in Northern Ireland.

The order represents a further step towards securing that identification between the police and the public which is the very foundation of policing in a civilised society, and I therefore commend the order to the House.

5.23 p.m.

Mr. John Biggs-Davison (Epping Forest)

I thank the Minister for his explanation of what is a somewhat complicated order, but he has not, I fear, removed some of my misgivings. These misgivings arise not just from the words on the Order Paper that The Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments have not yet completed their consideration of the Instrument", but from other reasons, too.

Successive Secretaries of State, including Conservative ones, have made it clear that the Royal Ulster Constabulary is under the law. Its officers are citizens subject both to the law of the land and to a strict code of discipline and behaviour. There is one thing on which I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman, and that is that this young force, as he called it—it is young in age but not in history—is earning increased respect under its able Chief Constable. All would agree that the members of the force are working under great stress of terror and danger, not only to themselves but to their families, and therefore they deserve the backing and understanding of all law-abiding citizens. We must be very careful that in legislating and in following the pattern in general of Great Britain we do not make their difficult work even more difficult.

It was agreed at the Sunningdale Conference that an independent complaints procedure should be set up. Sunningdale came out with a package deal. It was hoped that the elected representatives of the minority would lend their full support to the RUC and the security forces. That hope has not been entirely fulfilled. Sunningdale is now past history.

Reference to the desirability of an independent complaints procedure also appears in the report of the Gardiner Committee, which this House has never debated—I am not quite sure why. The report favoured the introduction of this independent element. Paragraph 96 says: The procedures for investigating complaints against members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary are already more thorough than those at present in existence anywhere else in the United Kingdom. Nevertheless, the committee recommended the introduction of an independent element. I am not quite sure why.

The working party heard the views of the Police Federation of Northern Ireland. I turn to page 27 of its report, where, at the bottom of the page, we read words which should have the attention of hon. Members. We categorically refuse and resent the implied suggestion of partiality where police are involved in investigating complaints of this nature. It is our view civilian independent investigators should not become involved in police matters of this nature. The primary objection appears to evolve around the independent element, but we submit this is already provided for. The Police Authority"— which does not exist in the same way as on this side of the water— the DPP Department and HM Inspector of Constabulary all have an independent supervisory role. That is a view put forward by the Police Federation and it should weigh with us.

Further, the working party formed the view that change was necessary only in relation to offences against discipline and not in relation to allegations of criminal offences, which, in Northern Ireland, go direct to the DPP, who is an official independent of the Executive.

In our consideration, then, we have to bear in mind the fact that the terrorist is adept at propaganda and that malicious complaints are terrorist weapons. When, two months ago, I was speaking at Trinity College, Dublin, I found myself on the same platform as Mr. Oliver Napier of the Alliance Party, and I noted certain words that he uttered in rebuke of those who easily make complaints against members of the security forces and who condemn collectively the UDR or the police because of the crimes or blunders of members or former members. He said: We have almost got used to the endless trail of deaths. But if one policeman or one soldier makes an error of judgment, even though we know it will be fully investigated and that legal trial will follow, enormous emotions are raised. I should have thought that there was good existing procedure for the full investigation of criminal or indisciplined acts on the part of the RUC.

The working party found that in the vast majority of cases in which disciplinary proceedings were taken against members of the Force, the proceedings resulted from external control exercised by senior officers rather than complaints made by members of the public. It concluded that this was a clear indication that firm disciplinary control is exercised within the RUC and the evidence given by the Police Authority representatives bears this out. I noted one sentence in the chief constable's report for 1975 under the heading of "Dissatisfied Complainants". It states: Of the 1,016 completed investigations the number of complainants who on their own initiative subsequently made formal representations of dissatisfaction with the investigation or its outcome was 16, or 1.5 per cent. I think that is impressive in the conditions of Northern Ireland today.

When the Great Britain measure was being debated in this House, my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St. Edmunds (Mr. Griffiths), who has been an eloquent spokesman for the police, urged two things. I am not quite sure what would be the situation in Northern Ireland in this respect. My hon. Friend urged that policemen who are accused should receive a copy of the complaint. Secondly, he urged that the Police Federation be freed from restrictions on the use of its funds to pay for defamation proceedings against malicious complainants. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will deal with those points in winding up.

It is not clear to me what function or standing the police authority would have in future in connection with complaints against the police. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will say something about that.

It seems to me that Parliament is multiplying the authorities, commissions and boards in Northern Ireland. Here is another one. I sometimes wonder whether the men and women of probity and competence will be found to man and serve them. May I ask to whom police files would be made available in complaints cases? This is a very important question in present conditions in the Province.

This debate—which I suppose will be a fairly short one, although it is a very important matter—gives the House an opportunity again to record its grateful admiration of the valour of the men and women of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the Royal Ulster Constabulary Reserve who are in daily and nightly danger. We salute the memory of those who have laid down their lives. By the end of September more officers of the RUC and RUC Reserve had been murdered in the present year than in any previous year. These are terrible figures.

We look forward to the day when the policing of Northern Ireland will again be strictly for the RUC, and when the army which sustains the police can withdraw to other duties and to its former garrison rôle in Ulster. The recruiting figures which the Secretary of State announced in an earlier debate are most encouraging.

I came across some words of the present Home Secretary, formerly Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, when he addressed the Police Superintendents' Association of Northern Ireland on 2nd September. He said: Let the people of Northern Ireland demonstrate their continued support for the police in every way. I have reservations about the order. I have to be convinced of its necessity, because I feel that in passing it there is a danger that we might be thought to be lacking in the continued support which the Home Secretary insisted should be given to the police in every way.

5.34 p.m.

Rev. Ian Paisley (Antrim, North)

As the Opposition spokesman has well said, this is a very important order. There are some matters that we should do well to highlight in this debate and on which we seek observations from the Government.

I should like to make it clear that the elected representatives on the Unionist Bench give their full-hearted, unequivocal support to the police as the police of Northern Ireland. It is to be regretted that the Government say to us—our constituents find it very difficult to understand this—that we must have enforced power sharing with those who cannot even at this late hour give their full-hearted support to the police.

The hon. Member for Belfast, West (Mr. Fitt) is missing, as he usually is when we come to vital matters concerning the police. It is to be regretted that once again at the SDLP conference its policy of not supporting the police, the Army and the other forces of the Crown was continued. We know what happened to Councillor Tom Donnelly, who had the courage of his convictions and stood up and said that the SDLP should support the police and the Army. He had to resign and leave public life altogether. I want to put that on the record.

I am against Sunningdale, and we still have bits of it lying round. The matter of extra-territorial jurisdiction is not worth the paper it is written on.

Mr. J. Enoch Powell (Down, South)

Perfectly futile.

Rev. Ian Paisley

Yes, perfectly futile. We now have before us this order, although I am not suggesting that it, too, is perfectly futile. However, I have some grave doubts about it, as have some of my colleagues.

Our doubts are not about the conduct of the RUC. We believe that complaints against the integrity of the RUC will be fully answered. We do not have doubts because we are afraid of investigation. Our doubts relate to the fact that it is the people who do not support the police who are clamouring for a complaints system. That is the sad aspect of the matter. It comes not from those who support the police, but from a section of the community that does not support the police and also from some of its elected representatives.

I wish to castigate the minority representatives who hold on to bitter antagonism against the RUC and the other forces of the Crown and who bring scurrilous accusations against hon. Members from Northern Ireland and then, when it comes to the crunch, say that they are behind the police. It is noticeable that the hon. Member for Belfast, West was the only speaker who had no word of thanks for the police, and yet he was hailed as a statesman by the right hon. Member for Bermondsey (Mr. Mellish), a former Labour Chief Whip. We deplore the hon. Gentleman's conduct.

I turn to the order, in which there are provisions that worry us. I am informed by the Police Federation of Northern Ireland that under the present complaints system the date off complaint is entered on the personal file of the constable, sergeant or officer concerned. There is no explanation written into the personal file as to the nature of the complaint, or what happened to it, or whether the man in question was exonerated. When that file comes up and the man is due for promotion, the complaint is entered there on the file and that is it.

The reason is simple. The constable is allowed to see his personal file in normal circumstances. However, under the present complaints system he is not allowed to know the person who is making the complaint against him. I should like an assuarnce from the Minister that under the new system there will be a full statement about the complaint on the file, with information as to what happened as a result of the complaint and whether the officer was exonerated.

I agree with the Minister that something must be done about those who bring malicious complaints against the police. We live in days when the whole complaints system could be brought down by the number of frivolous complaints. There could be two or three members on a board from the minority who may sit on that body only to hold up its work. If they say "We are not happy with what has happened and want a thorough investigation", that can hold up the whole process. I was in the office of a senior police officer the other day and he had a number of complaints on his desk. He said "These are holding up all our investigations because everything stops when the man is charged. There is a black mark against his name and things have to stop". Another officer from another district has to go in and follow up a complaint. I am aware that there is a need for a system but I do not want Ulster to have a system that will prevent the police from doing their proper work.

I am grateful to the Minister for circulating information giving us the contrast between this proposed system and the system in the rest of the United Kingdom. It is most helpful. We believe in the Union and, for good or ill, we believe that the laws passed in this House have to be accepted since this is the sovereign body. We feel that we have the right to use this Parliament as a forum to bring matters to the attention of the Government. Under this proposed system every complaint must go forward to the board. According to paragraph 4 of the explanatory note: Where a complaint is referred to the chief constable under Section 13(1) of the Act he shall, as soon as reasonably practical, send to the board a copy of the complaint. This is different from the English Act. We should like a fuller explanation from the Minister. He feels that this is a minor matter but we want to know why in Northern Ireland every complaint has to go to the board while that is not the case of the rest of the United Kingdom.

In Northern Ireland severe criticisms are made about politicians interfering with the prerogative of the Chief Con- stable. Yet under this order the board can interfere with the prerogative of the Chief Constable. The notes say: Where the chief constable has not preferred charges the board may, if it disagrees with his decision, make a recommendation to him as to the charges which it considers should be preferred. If, after the board has made such recommendations and consulted the chief constable, he still is unwilling to prefer such charges as the board considers appropriate, it may direct him". That impinges upon the authority of the Chief Constable. There have been accusations that politicians have been seeking to interfere with the authority of the Chief Constable. Here is a board, the membership of which we do not know, which will be able to interfere with the Chief Constable's authority.

These are serious points with which we trust the Minister will be able to deal. I apologise in that I and some of my colleagues may have to slip away before the Minister replies. However, my right hon. Friend the Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell) will remain to hear the full debate. I hope that the Minister will recognise that it is not meant as an insult to him if we have to leave shortly. However, duty calls and aeroplanes go at set times. I have duties to do on the Sabbath day. I am not like some who have a rest on that day. If I do not get home, I shall be in trouble.

Mr. Dunn

I quite appreciate the reasons why the hon. Member must leave. I can assure him that I shall try to give him a reply tonight, but it may be that it will be better if I take his complex questions away and give a detailed reply, even to the extent of circulating it to his colleagues as copy correspondence.

Rev. Ian Paisley

I should appreciate that.

5.44 p.m.

Mr. J. Enoch Powell (Down, South)

Despite the courteous and characteristic intervention made by the Minister it may be to his convenience—as he will probably shortly be replying to the debate—if I briefly add one or two comments to those that have been made by my hon. Friend the Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Paisley) who has just left the Chamber, although certain signals which appear to have been hoisted suggest that meteorological conditions may not be in favour of those who intend to travel between the two parts of the United Kingdom.

From what my hon. Friend said, it will be clear that if this order had come forward in isolation, we would have had a very much more severe debate and my hon. Friends and I would have been in very much greater doubt whether to support it. In fact, it comes before us as an order which except in one particular—and that, I believe, is not a substantial one—brings the law in Northern Ireland into accord with that established in Great Britain by the Police Act 1976.

The conditions under which the RUC operates in Northern Ireland are very different from those under which the police in Great Britain operate. Nevertheless, so strongly do my hon. Friends and I feel that in this respect, as in many others, the law should be uniform throughout the United Kingdom, that we unanimously decided, after studying the order, to support the uniformity of the law which it creates. This is a minor commentary perhaps upon something said in the debate earlier this week and it illustrates how important to those representing Northern Ireland is the principle of the uniformity of law as made by Parliament applying to the whole of the United Kingdom.

It is clear from the order that its result could perfectly well have been achieved by the Police Bill, and probably it would have been better had that been done because a number of my hon. Friends and myself would have been able to take part in the discussions on the Police Bill instead of contemplating it as a kind of appendix to the Great Britain legislation.

The Under-Secretary of State was very helpful to my hon. Friends and myself in supplying us with an analysis of the minor differences which remain between the law as this order will leave it and that created by the Police Act in England and Wales. I should like the hon. Gentleman to confirm that the effect of Article 4—that is, the purely Northern Ireland article—is marginal and that under Article 5, as I understand it, all complaints will in any case reach the Police Complaints Board under the England and Wales arrangements when the Chief Constable has made his investigation and that the only difference in Northern Ireland is that there will be a notification to the board in advance.

That is puzzling. It appears to be a minor, almost an administrative, complication and an additional wheel to the coach. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Antrim, North that we did not get a full explanation of what benefit it would be. However, I hope that the Under-Secretary of State will be able to confirm that it means that no more complaints will reach the board than would in any case have reached it sooner or later and that the only difference is that in Northern Ireland we shall have prior notification.

5.48 p.m.

Mr. Dunn

A number of questions have been put to me, and I shall attempt to answer them. However, I am sure that hon. Members will appreciate that some of them relate to rather complex matters and to the Police Act 1976.

The right hon. Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell) raised an important point. He expressed a view about the procedure for legislation relating to Northern Ireland. He will be the first to appreciate that I have very little influence on the means of procuring the legislation, and he will know that the Secretary of State and those of us who serve as his ministerial colleagues have always been aware that to incorporate into United Kingdom legislation all the Acts required for Northern Ireland can, from time to time, cause more difficulty than is expected. If we tread with care, it is perhaps because we are overcautious, maybe even over-considerate, to those whom we serve. We know the need, and there are ways of serving it.

However, I shall bring his comments to the notice of my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House and of those who see to the drafting and the incorporation of various parts of the United Kingdom into legislation which comes before the House.

The hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mr. Biggs-Davison) put to me what he felt was a problem in relation to the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments. So far as I am aware, what is happening here is that there are exchanges of correspondence with a view to clarifying matters rather than going into an area of disagreement. It is a question of interpretation, and I think that it is probably only for that reason that we have not received any further communication from the Joint Committee. I have made inquiries, and I am led to believe that there is no reason to think that the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments would have any reservations about the order. It seeks only clarification.

The hon. Gentleman drew to my attention what he regarded as the lessons of the working party report. There were representatives of the Police Authority and of the Police Federation on the working party, and, had there been any serious objections to the proposals being made by the working party, they would have come through in the report which reached us.

The working party report was a base upon which further consideration was given to how to deal with any police order for Northern Ireland. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will accept that what we aimed to do was to reflect upon the debates and discussions relating to the Police Act for England and Wales and then to take account of suggestions made by the House in regard to all matters which were or subsequently might be raised with reference to any police order for Northern Ireland. This process gave time for further representations from interested organisations in Northern Ireland to make their views known.

In addition, as hon. Members have acknowledged, we circulated a note relating to the order, in an effort to give further opportunity for consultation. It was our hope that, if there were any serious reservations, they would be notified to us. We should have been prepared to look at any suggestions made by hon. Members to see whether there was need to amend the draft regulations eventually put before the House on 7th December.

The hon. Member for Epping Forest will recall that an assurance was given by my right hon. Friend the previous Secretary of State in regard to criticisms during the passage of the Police Bill. The Home Secretary at that time gave an undertaking that any amendment relating to the use of police funds or Police Federation funds operative for England and Wales would be brought before the House at an early date. I assure the hon. Gentleman that, if that is the wish of the Northern Ireland Police Federation, we should accept a corresponding amendment. That was the statement made by my right hon. Friend, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and now Home Secretary—I echo it on behalf of the present Secretary of State—that any amendment passed to the Police Bill would automatically be given consideration, that we should consult and we should put the matter before the House.

On the question whether the accused officer will receive copies of the complaint, I can give the assurance that according to the order he will do so. The Secretary of State has further powers under Article 9 to remedy any defect or to bring into existence any regulation that might be the result of further consultations. The article vests an enabling power in the Secretary of State. There is no closed door in respect of the problems that hon. Members have brought to our notice.

The hon. Member for Antrim, South (Mr. Molyneaux) raised a number of points, beginning with the question whether the Secretary of State could give an undertaking about the provision of copies of complaints to the police officer concerned. But the hon. Gentleman went further than that and said that he wanted the police officer to receive not only copies of the complaint but also any record that may be placed in his personal file that is held by the police authority or by the constabulary. This is basically a matter for the Chief Constable, but I have taken note of what the hon. Member for Antrim, South has brought to my attention.

I will bring the matter to the notice of the chief constable and if I am not satisfied with his answer I will refer it to the Secretary of State to discover whether there is any need for further regulations to be enacted. In justice, and following the customs and practices that we value highly in this country, all are innocent until proved guilty. A man can answer a charge only after he has been made fully aware of it. Following that practice I think that something could be done in this matter.

The Police Complaints Board will have a copy of the complaint whether the complaint is made direct to the board and then conveyed to the Chief Constable or whether the complaint is made to the chief constable and a copy then conveyed by him to the board. The consequences of various stages of investigation will be notified to the board, which will have a comprehensive record of these matters and will be able to answer any question that may be brought to the notice of the board. The board will ensure balance in any investigation, and will ensure that the community at large has confidence that any complaint that is made will be so notified and recorded so that, as hitherto, allegations cannot be thrown at the RUC unjustifiably.

Mr. Powell

It would be reassuring for my hon. Friend the Member for Antrim, South (Mr. Molyneaux) if, when the Under-Secretary has made his investigations, the Minister would let my hon. Friend know what the procedure will be with regard to the entries in records police officers' records.

Mr. Dunn

I certainly undertake to do that. I do not know whether I can go as far as I would like, but the Secretary of State has the right to make regulations and I will proceed on that basis with the Chief Constable in order to find out whether an understanding can be reached.

The hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley) asked about the validity of complaints raised against the police and whether there should be powers for dealing with malicious or mischievous complaints. I can assure him that powers already exist. If the police feel that those powers should be used, it is a matter for them to decide. I am sure that the hon. Member for Antrim, North and other hon. Gentlemen can recall cases arising from the operation of the Police Act in England and Wales in which malicious complaints—particularly those made frequently—have been brought to the notice of the courts and offenders have been dealt with.

I think that I have answered all the questions raised by the hon. Member for Antrim, North, or at least those which fall within the purview of this order. He mentioned one or two other matters of which I shall take note and which I shall probably raise with him at some later time, but they were not primarily related to the order.

Let me deal now with the question of Article 6. The difference is that the Police Complaints Board has the right in the final analysis to direct that proceedings shall be taken. It has no right to adjudicate upon the verdict, so in that sense there is a difference in Northern Ireland. I think the reason for that will be generally understood. If there were grounds for a genuine complaint that proceedings had not been taken that could be the cause of disorder in a way which is not likely to occur in England and Wales. It is for the protection of all those in the force and of those who command it that we believe that it is far better to write into the order strenuous protections which afford the defence of complete impartiality. In that way no one can ever claim that, although a complaint was made, no further proceedings were taken. This will be left to an independent body, and that independent element is essential in public relations in Northern Ireland at present.

The right hon. Member for Down, South asked about the advance notice which will be issued to the board. That will be issued only under the criteria of the order. If the Chief Constable is dealing with criminal proceedings and he then refers the papers to the Director of Public Prosecutions, until the Director of Public Prosecutions has determined that matter, the board will not be notified in advance. It will be notified in the wake of the decisions that are made.

I believe that this order will give the RUC the protection which it should have possessed over the past decade. I meant every word of my introductory remarks when I said that the force acts with great courage, great dedication and great determination. It is daily put at risk, sometimes unreasonably so, by the silly behaviour of others. If we as Ministers do not always give answers in the statistical form which is being sought it is only to protect the members of the RUC. We do not want to provide any information for intelligence units belonging to the unlawful component of the Northern Ireland community. We do not want to grant any facilities to the para-militaries. We shall do all in our power to support this force in the execution of its duty and the wonderful service it provides for all the people in the Province.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Police (Northern Ireland) Order 1976, a draft of which was laid before this House on 7th December, be approved.