HC Deb 15 December 1976 vol 922 cc1498-9
2. Mr. Reid

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had to date with Civil Service unions in Scotland about the likely status of civil servants consequent upon the establishment of the proposed Scottish Assembly.

The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Harry Ewing)

My right hon. Friend has not yet discussed this question with any of the Civil Service unions, but representatives of the Scottish Office Staff Side discussed the matter with my right hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross), when he was Secretary of State, in April 1976 and in October with the Minister of State, Civil Service Department.

Mr. Reid

When the Minister next meets the Civil Service will he discuss with it the possibility of the stress and divided loyalties that its members might suffer once the Assembly is set up? Will he reconsider the block grant system of finance? Does he agree that whether or not there is constitutional conflict on that, there will be some hard bargaining? In that circumstance, where does the loyalty of Scots civil servants lie—to the Prime Minister in Edinburgh or the Treasury in London? Would it not be better to have, as Kilbrandon recommended, a separate Scottish Civil Service with comparable wage rates and career structure, as happened in Northern Ireland?

Mr. Ewing

The Civil Service unions are opposed to a separate Civil Service. The Government consider that a unified Civil Service is important to the working of the devolution Bill because it will help in the discussions between the Administration in Edinburgh and the Administration in London. There can be no question of civil servants having divided loyalties, because civil servants serving the Scottish Assembly will be serving an integral part of the United Kingdom Government.

Mr. Robert Hughes

Will my hon. Friend ensure that there is no bar to civil servants from Scotland going to work in England, or to civil servants in England going to work in Scotland? Is that not essential if we are to get the best possible service from the Civil Service? Will my hon. Friend make certain that a separate Civil Service is not established, since that might lead to only Scots being promoted and given jobs in the Scottish Civil Service and only the English enjoying the same benefits in England? Would that not work to the great detriment of the people who rely on the work of the Civil Service?

Mr. Ewing

The first part of my hon. Friend's question can be taken as read. The Government and the unions are opposed to a separate Civil Service.