§ 21. Mr. Christopher Priceasked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether she will now accept the principle of a common system of assessment at 16-plus.
§ Mrs. Shirley WilliamsThe Schools Council has proposed a common system of examining at 16-plus. I have told the Council that a common system is in my view desirable, but I need further evidence as to its educational feasibility and agreement on a new administrative structure before taking a final decision. I am therefore arranging for an intensive and systematic study of the outstanding problems.
§ Mr. PriceIs my right hon. Friend aware that the way in which she phrased that answer will cause considerable disappointment on the Labour Benches? Is she further aware that we shall never reach the aim of a truly comprehensive system as long as there is a division right down the middle of secondary schools between O-levels and CSE? Does not this make it essential to bring in a common system of assessment? Furthermore, does not my right hon. Friend appreciate that the one aim of many of the bodies which she consults is to delay the process in such a way that we shall never have a common system of assessment? What target date has she set herself for the 225 announcement of the acceptance of that principle?
§ Mrs. WilliamsOn the first point, I should be thanked by nobody if I were to replace the present examination system by a set of examinations that were not widely recognised and respected. On the second point mentioned by my hon. Friend, the answer is that this matter has already been discussed with the Chairman of the Schools Council, who has indicated the willingness of the Council to co-operate fully in the programme of work which will take place shortly
§ Mr. SwainOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I have stood up exactly 10 times during this Question Time—[Interruption.] Tell me outside that I am drunk, and I will punch your bloody head in, mate.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I hope that my eyesight will improve.
§ Mr. SpeakerPoints of order make Question Time that much shorter.
§ Mr. SpeakerYes, but would the hon. Gentleman be kind enough to raise his point of order immediately at the end of Questions?
§ Mr. Peter BottomleyWill the right hon. Lady help the House to understand the examination system—[Interruption.]—by placing in the Library a sample syllabus of assessment sheets so that hon. Members can see what the Department has in mind?
§ Mrs. WilliamsIf I were able to hear the hon. Gentleman's question I would give him a reasonably rational answer, but I was unable to do so.
§ Later—
§ Mr. SpeakerDoes the hon. Member for Derbyshire, North-East (Mr. Swain) wish to pursue his point of order?
§ Mr. SwainI do, Mr. Speaker. In 17 years in the House, I have always respected the Chair. If I have respected no one else, I have always respected the Chair. On this occasion, there is a shadow of doubt in my mind.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman knows that if he wishes to criticise the Chair there is a procedure open to him. I am not content to sit here and listen to him without a substantive motion.
§ Mr. SwainPerhaps I may proceed, Mr. Speaker. I have never known a judge in a court to give a ruling without hearing the case. Apparently you have done so on this point.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman began by saying that he had doubt on this occasion. I must tell him, and the House, that if he wishes to criticise Mr. Speaker he must do it by a substantive motion and not by way of questions.
§ Mr. SwainI am terribly sorry, Mr. Speaker, but again you have misinterpreted me. I was not about to criticise the Chair. I was about to say that certain hon. Members on both sides of the House have been called during Question Time on three or four occasions when they do not have a Question on the Order Paper. I rose 10 times to ask a supplementary question that was pertinent to my constituency, and I was not called at all. I feel very aggrieved by the fact that some hon. Members can be called whenever they arise. Apparently the infiltration below the Gangway is taking place.
§ Mr. SpeakerI am sorry if I misunderstood what the hon. Gentleman was saying at the beginning. With regard to hon. Members being called during Question Time, no one was called four times today without having a Question on the Order Paper. Indeed, no one was called four times at all. All I can do is to do my best. At the end of every Question Time there are many frustrated Members who feel indignation that they have not been called.