Civil Aircraft Projects (Hansard, 6 December 1976)

§ 15. Mr. Warren
asked the Secretary of State for Industry if it remains his policy not to fund any new civil aircraft projects at the factories of BAC, HSA and Scottish Aviation whilst they remain in private ownership.

§ 18. Mr. Tebbit
asked the Secretary of State for Industry if it remains his determination to refuse launching aid to civil aircraft projects advanced by HSA or BAC whilst those companies remain in the private sector of the economy.

§ Mr. Kaufman
No such policy has been announced.

§ Mr. Warren
With respect to the Minister, may I say that his reply is rather at variance with that which we heard in the debate? Is he aware that I would like to be sure that there is no refusal?

§ Mr. Kaufman
Since we have had no approaches, there could be no refusal. Where I have had approaches, in the case of the HS146 and the BAC 1–11, I made available £6½ million of Government money, which the Opposition disliked so much that they shouted me down when I announced it.

§ Mr. Tebbit
Does the hon. Member not recall the rather hysterical reply which he made in the last of our debates 19 last Session on the Aircraft and Shipbuilding Industries Bill? Does he not understand that this has been widely interpreted, inside and outside the House, as the Minister saying that under no circumstances would he give Government support to any major new civil project until the industry was nationalised? Is that his policy?

§ Mr. Kaufman
What I have made clear is that the days of the begging bowl have come to an end for the aircraft and shipbuilding industries in this country. We seek to place these industries into public ownership so that the large sums of money made available by the Bill can be used for new projects in the aircraft industry and to help in the shipbuilding and ship repairing industries. The hon. Gentleman had better make up his mind. If he is an exponent of private enterprise he ought to tell the House whether he believes that private enterprise should be helped out with a Government contribution to the begging bowl.

§ Mr. Buchan
Is my hon. Friend aware that at Scottish Aviation there is complete unanimity in all sections of the industry that the only hope for survival is public ownership? Will my hon. Friend suggest to the Tory Party that the best thing it can do in these circumstances is to tell its friends in the House of Lords that it is time for them, too, to understand that?

§ Mr. Kaufman
It is well known that the long-term future of Scottish Aviation depends upon the rapid enactment of the Aircraft and Shipbuilding Industries Bill. Of course, the Tory Party does not care about these things at all.

§ Mr. Tebbit
As the Minister uses Question Time to ask questions of the Opposition rather than to answer them, may I ask him whether he is aware that there is no incompatibility between a healthy free enterprise system making sufficient profits—

§ Mr. Russell Kerr
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I should have thought that the hon. Member for Chingford (Mr. Tebbit) was asking a second supplementary question. Is that in order, and is it desirable, anyway?

§ Mr. Speaker
It is well within the discretion of the Chair.

§ Mr. Tebbit
Is the Minister aware that there is no incompatibility between a healthy free enterprise system making adequate profits and co-operating with the Government in launching major projects? That is done in every country in the world.

§ Mr. Kaufman
The hon. Gentleman places a curious interpretation on the word "co-operation". By "co-operation", he means Government funding. It is well known to us that the Tory Party believes that the aircraft industry should operate on the basis of private profit produced by Government money. We believe that the industry should be in public ownership, so that the taxpayer shall have a proper return from his investment.