HC Deb 01 December 1976 vol 921 cc905-7
24. Mr. Ridsdale

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will give a general direction to the Chairman of British Railways for British Railways shipping services to be accounted for separately from those of rail services.

Mr. Horam

British Rail has always been required to show shipping activities separately in its accounts.

Mr. Ridsdale

Is the Minister aware that I am disturbed about the increasing numbers of foreign ships which are in use in British ports? Will he ensure that British Railways use their profits to build British ships and to find employment for British seamen, rather than to subsidise foreign lines?

Mr. Horam

On the whole, the shipping subsidiary of British Railways has performed creditably. At the moment it is making a loss, but the situation is improving.

The British Railways Board has in the past ordered ships from a Danish yard. I have no information about any future orders in that connection.

Mr. Forman

Shipping services are shown separately in the accounts of British Railways. Will the hon. Gentleman consider persuading them to show the figures for inner and outer suburban services separately, as it is difficult for people to form an assessment if they do not know the percentage of total cost being met in each case?

Mr. Horam

The hon. Gentleman may be aware that under the 1968 Act, introduced by my right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn (Mrs. Castle), costs were shown separately for individual lines. That policy was cancelled in the 1974 Act, which reallocated funds on a general basis. This is a matter about which I can be sympathetic, but there are genuine practical problems, as I am sure the hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr. Fowler) will be the first to agree.

Mr. Stephen Ross

I do not object to the separate showing of the accounts of British Railways shipping. However, does the hon. Gentleman accept that because of that situation there is no interchangeability of tickets between British Railways rail and shipping services? Co-ordination in that area would be welcome, particularly for cheap day tickets.

Mr. Horam

I was not aware that the accounts being audited separately led to problems regarding the interchangeability of tickets between British Railways rail and shipping services. If that is so, I shall certainly look into it. Clearly, any effort to introduce a ticket which will take one right through would be sensible.

Mr. Fernyhough

In view of the lack of orders in the British shipbuilding industry, will my hon. Friend ensure that when British Railways need any further new ships they will place orders in British yards?

Mr. Horam

I well understand my right hon. Friend's concern about this matter. I know of his constituency interest in it. As I said earlier, the last ship ordered by British Railways was from a Danish yard. I have no information on what they intend to do about future orders. This is a matter fundamentally for British Railways, which are a nationalised concern.