HC Deb 05 August 1976 vol 916 cc2100-4
4. Mr. MacGregor

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will report progress on consideration of the Poultry Meat (Hygiene) Regulations.

Mr. Strang

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Renfrewshire, West (Mr. Buchan) on 4th August. The Regulations were laid before the House yesterday.

Mr. MacGregor

Will the Minister accept that the changes on New York-dressed poultry will be welcomed with relief as going most of the way towards saving most of that industry? Is he aware that local authorities still face considerable difficulties over recruitment and training if they are to have establishments by January of next year? Will he therefore ensure the maximum flexibility in phasing in the scheme so that there will be minimum burdens on local authorities next year? Finally, will he say whether the costs of training will be met in part by the industry, or will there be a Government grant?

Mr. Strang

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's early remarks. I can also reassure him with regard to the question of flexibility. This is something that is being phased in gradually. We must remember that in the first instance it may be only the plants exporting to the Community which have an inspection service, and it will not be mandatory on any home market producers until August 1979. We are still considering the question of Government grants towards training.

Mr. Pym

Is the Minister aware that there is considerable relief that the trade in New York-dressed poultry can, after all, continue? The only regret here and in the industry is that the industry has been kept in a state of anxiety for so long. Will the Minister confirm that no cost, including that for the training of inspectors, will fall on local authorities, and will he also say that there will be a proper role for environmental health officers in this new scheme as well as for veterinary surgeons?

Mr. Strang

Yes, I can confirm that absolutely no cost will fall on local authorities and ratepayers. I also confirm that there will be a rôle for environmental health officers. That is specifically written into the Regulations. I think the right hon. Gentleman will recognise that it was always the case that we would be making some concessions on New York-dressed poultry. Indeed, some of them were negotiated by us a very long time ago in Brussels. But I recognise that it is the further concession for dry-plucked poultry which is particularly important and has been welcomed by the industry and the right hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Roper

Will my hon. Friend accept the congratulations of those of us on the Government side of the House on having found a rational solution to this problem in the interests of small producers and consumers who prefer New York-dressed poultry? Will he give some assurance that this will be a permanent and not merely an interim solution?

Mr. Strang

The concession with regard to dry plucked is without time limit. I think that my hon. Friend, with his knowledge of EEC matters, will recognise that it is inevitable that the whole question of the directive will be reviewed in due course by the Community. But there is no time limit on the dry plucked.

Mr. Marten

How many officials will be required to implement this scheme?

Mr. Strang

When the hon. Gentleman refers to officials, I think he refers to poultry meat inspectors and veterinary surgeons. When the scheme is in full operation in August 1979, we estimate that in total there will be a demand for about 100 veterinary surgeon equivalents. I say "equivalents" because some authorities will use one only part-time while others will take one on full-time. There will be between 600 and 650 poultry meat inspectors. However, we should remember that this is not a net addition, because in practice some of the more advanced and progressive firms are already employing people privately. What it will mean is that, instead of their doing it, it will be done officially by proper local authority inspectors.

12. Mr. Hal Miller

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what will be the additional capital cost required to modify poultry processing plants so that they conform to the Poultry Hygiene Regulations.

Mr. Strang

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Banbury (Mr. Marten) on 22nd March.

Mr. Miller

I admire the hon. Gentleman's dexterity in getting a Question planted yesterday about these Regulations. Will he assure the House that the period proposed for compliance—namely, until 15th August 1977—is adequate, bearing in mind the structural requirements of pigmeat producers? Will he also say what will be the cost of implementing these requirements and the percentage that will be borne by the consumer in the form of higher prices?

Mr. Strang

When the hon. Gentleman refers to pigmeat producers, I take him to be referring to poultry meat producers—

Mr. Miller

I was asking about the structural requirements for poultry—

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Mr. Strang

The structural requirements, as the hon. Gentleman said, should be met by August 1977, but it is our intention to be flexible. We recognise that we are not giving producers a lot of time. The hon. Gentleman will welcome the announcement made yesterday of aid under the Industry Act to assist in bringing premises up to proper hygienic standards.

Mr. Marten

As the Government are making expenditure cuts, is this not a classic example of where they should not spend money?

Mr. Strang

No, I could not disagree more with the hon. Gentleman. The British housewife is entitled to protection, and we are woefully behind Norway, Denmark and the United States in this area. We really must have proper hygienic standards. This is something we should have done a long time ago.

Mr. Pym

To what extent will it be possible to take advantage of FEOGA grants towards the capital cost referred to in the Question?

Mr. Strang

Because of the structural modifications to be made, the requirements will be eligible for assistance under the Industry Act. Therefore, the producers will be able to apply for a FEOGA grant under the special projects scheme. I am hopeful that some producers will make successful applications.