HC Deb 04 August 1976 vol 916 cc1694-6
3. Mr. Fry

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what recent consultations he has had on rural transport.

The Minister for Transport (Dr. John Gilbert)

Rural transport problems are discussed in chapter 6 of the Consultation Document on the Transport Policy Review, and I shall be considering the responses on this subject in the course of the review. Meanwhile, my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary met various organisations concerned with rural transport on 29th June at the first meeting of the steering committee for the rural transport experiments.

Mr. Fry

The Government have now been in power for two and a half years, and during that time transport services in rural areas have been severely depleted and fares considerably increased. When will the Government actually do something, as opposed to talking about the matter?

Dr. Gilbert

I am well aware of the difficulties that face people living in rural areas who have access neither to a car nor to public bus services. This state of affairs has persisted for many years. The fact that we are doing something about it shows that we are far more seized of the problem that the Conservatives were.

Mr. Ronald Atkins

Is my thon. Friend aware that buses in general receive financial assistance estimated to be worth about £9 million through lower taxation? Would it not be better to use that money to help rural and even urban services instead of spending it on contract hire and express coaches?

Dr. Gilbert

I take my hon. Friend's point. We assisted rural bus services in the shire counties to the tune of about £33 million in this year's supplementary grant. Of course, it has always been a matter for consideration whether we should do more within the limited resources available to us.

Mr. David Steel

The Government give the impression of being quite oblivious to the crisis facing transport in rural areas as local authorities are pressed to cut expenditure and the costs of running services increase. It is eight months since the Minister announced that there would be experiments in certain parts of Scotland, Wales and England. When will he report on the progress that has been made?

Dr. Gilbert

We have had a meeting with the steering committee. We have selected four areas in North Yorkshire, Devon, South Ayrshire and the county of Dyfed for these experiments. It would be unsatisfactory to try to move too quickly until we have considered the decisions with the bus operators and the trade unions involved.

Mr. Norman Fowler

No one would criticise the Government for moving too quickly. Is it not the position that the only action the Government have taken is to scrap the Conservative Government's reform on this matter? Will he seriously tackle the problem? Does not his lack of action show his and the Government's total lack of concern for the problems of the rural areas?

Dr. Gilbert

The proposals that came from the Conservatives were for the total scrapping of the bus licensing laws in rural areas. I am simply not prepared to make such a recommendation to the House. That licensing system has served the British public well for many years. It would be thoroughly irresponsible to proceed with the compulsory dismantling of the arrangements. We have increased the transport supplementary grant to rural areas, changed the proportions away from the metropolitan areas in order to assist rural areas—that was done last year—and met about 98 per cent. of the additional bids that we invited. We have also set up a working party and have announced the areas in which the experiments will start shortly.

Mr. Fry

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.