HC Deb 14 April 1976 vol 909 cc1375-6
Mr. Stonehouse

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am grateful to you for your permission to raise a very important point of order. I refer to the use by the Chair yesterday of Standing Orders Nos. 22 and 23. I appreciate—

Mr. Speaker

It would not be in order for the right hon. Gentleman to seek that I in any way change the ruling made by Mr. Deputy Speaker yesterday. When Mr. Deputy Speaker is in the Chair he has exactly the same authority as I have when I am in the Chair.

Mr. Stonehouse

I accept your ruling on that point, Mr. Speaker, but that is not the matter that I wish to raise. I wish to raise the principle of the use of Standing Order No. 22 to limit the debate on the Adjournment of the House. It is a well-known tradition of the House that individual Members look to the Chair for protection. In the past when individual hon. Members did not accept contemporary wisdom or had unpalatable facts to bring before the House—

Mr. Speaker

It looks as if the right hon. Gentleman is trying to raise what happened yesterday. I am not prepared for him to raise this morning what happened yesterday. Therefore, a general argument about the interpretation of rules would only hold up the business of the House if he raised it at this time.

Mr. Stonehouse

I accept your ruling, Mr. Speaker, and I am not trying to dispute it. But, with respect, it is a matter of considerable constitutional importance. The traditional duty of the Chair to protect an individual hon. Member has not been adhered to because yesterday Mr. Deputy Speaker brought an hon. Member's speech to an end, not because he was out of order, but because Mr. Deputy Speaker did not like its content—

Mr. Speaker

The right hon. Gentleman is beginning to reflect on the judgment of Mr. Deputy Speaker. It is the duty of the occupant of the Chair to protect both the rights of individual hon. Members and the rights of the House, which are not unimportant. I am not prepared to continue this matter now. It is not a matter on which I can rule this morning.

Mr. Stonehouse

I accept entirely your ruling, Mr. Speaker. But I have had an opportunity of looking at precedents to the matter and I would like to draw them to your attention.

Mr. Speaker

The right hon. Gentle-may not do that at this time. I am not prepared to go further on what happened yesterday or to pass judgment.

Mr. Stonehouse rose—

Mr. Speaker

I am moving on to the next business.

Later—

Mr. Kershaw

I shall be brief, Mr. Speaker. Am I right in assuming from the Official Report and from something which you said this morning that the right hon. Member for Walsall, North (Mr. Stonehouse) was ruled out of order yesterday not because he was being repetitious or irrelevant but because he was taking too long? If I am right, are you prepared to rule how long a speech should take?

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman is wrong on every point.