Rural Transport (Hansard, 7 April 1976)

§ 14. Mr. Shepherd
asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what proposals he has for improving rural transport.

§ 25. Mr. David Steel
asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he expects to introduce legislation to assist the provision of transport in rural areas.

§ The Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Kenneth Marks)
County Councils have the prime responsibility for public transport in their areas, but the Government intend to promote a number of experiments to explore with all the parties concerned, on the ground, what can be done to improve rural transport. Legislation relating to some features of the experiments will be introduced when an opportunity presents itself.

§ Mr. Shepherd
Will the Minister recognise that there is a substantial degree of urgency in this matter now? Every month that goes by leads to a further migration of people from the countryside, leaving the elderly more exposed and more incapable of travel. Does he recognise that although transport costs are not much different in rural and urban areas they have also to be compared with costs in London? People in rural areas do not enjoy the benefits of London weighting allowances, and they are therefore put at a disadvantage——

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. That is enough for an afternoon.

§ Mr. Marks
The Government help the county councils—particularly, this year, the non-metropolitan county councils—with their transport responsibilities through bus revenue support. The experiments which are guaranteed will first be within existing laws, and the need for changes in the law will be examined.

§ Mr. Madden
Does the Minister share my surprise at the claimed inability of the West Yorkshire bus authority to provide a bus service in a part of my constituency because the hill involved is too steep to take such a service? Will he consider setting up liaison machinery between bus authorities and bus manufacturers, to ensure that the authorities buy British buses and that the manufacturers produce buses that can go up steep hills?

§ Mr. Marks
I am sure that the steering committee will examine that matter. I was in the West Yorkshire area at the weekend, looking at the various aspects of public transport, and nobody mentioned the hill to me.

§ Mr. Luce
Will the Minister accept that as rural transport deteriorates a serious social problem is created in the villages? Instead of tinkering with the problem with local experiments, will he introduce modest legislation to relax public service licensing laws in rural areas?

§ Mr. Marks
The problem would be the degree of modesty. Wholesale delicensing is not necessary, and it might result in a reduction in existing services. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have to examine the problem. He recognised the importance of not ruining what is 414 left of the existing system in rural areas when he asked leave to bring in his Bill.

§ Mr. Steel
While experiments are all very well, is it not the case that the Minister has given the impression that the Government are not fully seized of the urgency of the matter in rural areas? Is legislation to be introduced this Session, or next?

§ Mr. Marks
No legislation is to be introduced at the moment, but in any case that is not a matter for me. We are aware of the urgency. A number of schemes operate, particularly in Scotland, where post buses are used more often than in England.

§ Mr. Les Huckfield
Is my hon. Friend aware that many of us welcome what he said about wholesale delicensing? Does he agree that the answer to the problem might be more flexibility in the scope and operation of the National Bus Company?

§ Mr. Marks
It is a subject that we must examine. Although we have to consider the views of trade unions and others about the maintenance of jobs, safety standards, and the proper maintenance of vehicles, we must recognise that there are many people who have access to neither bus services nor cars in such areas. We have to do our best for them.

§ Sir John Hall
Is the Minister aware that in my constituency, which is only 30 or 40 miles from London, rural transport is at the point of breakdown? Will he consider the possibility of allowing Post Office vans to carry passengers as well as mail, as they do successfully in other countries?

§ Mr. Marks
They also operate successfully in this country, and I hope for an extension in those services. Post vans are used most in Scotland and Wales with a few in England. There is nothing against them, except that the routes and the times of Post Office vans do not necessarily coincide with the times and routes of people who want to travel on local journeys.