HC Deb 29 October 1975 vol 898 cc1579-82
12. Mr. Biffen

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how the United Kingdom will be represented at the World Energy Conference expected to open in Paris on 16th December.

14. Mr. Teddy Taylor

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will confirm that Great Britain will have independent representation at the forthcoming World Energy Conference.

Mr. James Callaghan

I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply I gave on 20th October. The issue is not settled yet.—[Vol. 898, c. 28–32.]

Mr. Biffen

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the Conservative Party election manifesto of October 1974 it was stated that a first essential requirement would be for the British people to retain control of the maximum benefits from our offshore oil? Does he agree that those sentiments enshrine great wisdom? Does he further accept that his present policy of securing the legitimate national interests in this forthcoming conference command wide support, both in the House and in the country?

Mr. Callaghan

On this exceptional occasion I am happy to agree with the Conservative Party manifesto. When the hon. Gentleman was reading it out I wondered whether he was addressing it to me or to some of his colleagues.

Mr. Frank Allaun

Does my right hon. Friend remember that during the referendum campaign some of us said publicly that the other EEC countries would want to control our great oil asset, and particularly the price at which it was sold? Was not that denied by Government spokesmen? Does my right hon. Friend recognise the strength of the support that he has for saying "No" with respect to this vital British asset?

Mr. Callaghan

There have been no attempts so far to secure control of British oil. That should be made clear in fairness to our Community partners. What we are discussing is whether an energy policy for the whole of the Community will be of benefit to all nine members, including Britain. So far that has not been demonstrated as far as I can see. What we are discussing is representation at a conference. This is a procedural matter and it is this procedure which has still to be settled.

Mr. Teddy Taylor

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that this is a vital matter and not a procedural matter? Does he accept that it would destroy Britain's credibility to emulate the Grand Old Duke of York and to have a sell-out after standing so firm? In the discussions that have taken place, has it been clarified whether membership of the EEC would make it impossible for Britain to seek to join OPEC if we chose to do so?

Mr. Callaghan

No, I do not think it would. If that occasion arose, it might be that the OPEC rules would prevent our joining. I understand that one of the rules of OPEC is that oil must be a country's major export if it is to be an OPEC member. I do not think that it will be our major export, even though it will be an important export. I do not think that anything in the rules of the EEC would prevent our joining.

As for where we stand on this matter, I remind the hon. Gentleman and others like him that I did not notice much interest in these matters on their part until I went to Brussels and said what I thought the British position should be. It would seem that some of them might have woken up on these matters a little earlier.

Mr. Luard

Has my right hon. Friend considered a compromise by which Britain might be designated as a nation to represent the EEC at the conference in return for allowing some other members of the EEC to represent the Community in the other committees at the conference?

Mr. Callaghan

I do not think that that question arises yet. There are a number of places for industrialised countries at the conference, the conference having been arranged by France and called by France. I have made a claim for one of them. That is how the situation stands.

Mr. Gordon Wilson

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that whereas Scotland will be an oil exporter within nine months, England never will be? Does he agree that the appropriate representative from the United Kingdom at the conference should be a Scottish Minister to represent the Scottish national interest in oil? In view of the current developments of devolution, will the right hon. Gentleman explain what representations have been made by his Department about concurrent Scottish representation at international conferences once the Scottish Assembly has been established?

Mr. Callaghan

The conference is concerned not only with oil but with international financial matters, development, help to developing countries and raw materials. I do not know of any special Scottish claim that exceeds that of Wales—

Mr. Gordon Wilson

Oh!

Mr. Callaghan

—or England, put Wales first because I represent a Welsh I constituency. I hope and believe that the United Kingdom Government will continue to represent the whole of the United Kingdom.

Mr. Maudling

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is genuine concern that in his attempts to defend one British interest he has damaged other important British interests? Is it not a fact that, apart from North Sea oil, we have a vital interest in the cohesion of the Community and in the success of the forthcoming conference, which, as the right hon. Gentleman has said, covers a wide spectrum? Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to make his maximum effort to ensure that in defending what be believes to be our interest he will not in any way damage other equally important interests?

Mr. Callaghan

I think that the right hon. Gentleman had better settle his affairs with his own party before he takes that kind of line. I know what the right hon. Gentleman is doing.

The plain truth is that what we are discussing is a question of representation. That will not affect the substance of the dialogue when it begins. Questions of representation, who goes and which of the 27 countries will be represented there are matters entirely separate from what is said when we get there. I do not think that the right hon. Gentleman should help those other people in other countries who are trying to prevent Britain from going by making that sort of point.