WELSH INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD

HC Deb 23 October 1975 vol 898 cc811-4

Mr. Wigley

I beg to move Amendment No. 37, in page 8, line 10, at end insert: 'and under section 3 of the Industry Act 1975'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. George Thomas)

With this amendment we shall take Amendment No. 38, in page 8, line 22, at end insert— '(5) Any reference in this section to the Secretary of State's function under section 7 of the Industry Act 1972 includes a reference to his functions under section 11 of this Act and section 3 of the Industry Act 1975'.

Mr. Wigley

The amendment relates to a matter raised in Committee concerning the setting up of the Welsh Industrial Development Advisory Board. In the Bill as it stood then, and as it stands now, there are provisions for Section 7 of the Industry Act 1972 to be brought in. The amendment is also designed to include the powers under the 1975 legislation, assuming that the Industry Bill becomes an Act this year, and particularly we have in mind those in Clause 3.

The Under-Secretary responded in Committee by saying that he would look into this, and I hope that he is now in a position to advise the House of the outcome of his investigations.

Mr. Wyn Roberts

Amendment No. 38 is similar in some ways to Amendment No. 37 and does rather more than simply clarify the position and insert the cross-references between the Industry Act 1972, the Industry Bill 1975 and this Bill. The amendment, incidentally, is included in the Scottish Development Agency Bill and has been there, I think, from the beginning of that Bill's passage through Parliament. I cannot believe that there is any difference intended between the Scottish and Welsh Development Agencies in their relationship with the National Enterprise Board and with the operation of Clause 3 of the Industry Bill, yet a difference will surely exist unless this subsection is included.

What we hope will be secured by Amendment No. 38 is that when the Secretary of State exercises his power to operate Section 7 of the Industry Act 1972, be it through the National Enterprise Board or the Agency under Clause 11 of this Bill, the Welsh Industrial Development Advisory Board will advise him, and if it disagrees with the exercise, the Secretary of State may have to lay a statement before Parliament. In other words, our amendment strengthens the Secretary of State's and the Welsh Indus trial Development Board's control over the Welsh operations of the NEB in relation to the Industry Act 1972.

I should like confirmation from the Government that this is their interpretation of the effect of the amendment. Without this amendment the NEB can give financial assistance to a firm in Wales without the Welsh Industrial Development Board's advice. This is the crux of our amendment.

Mr. Alec Jones

Both amendments deal with the same point, although the Conservative amendment goes slightly further. In Committee I undertook to consider some of the arguments which have been repeated this evening. I have had consultations on this, and we have come to the conclusion that the amendment is unnecessary. I shall explain why.

The Welsh Industrial Development Advisory Board will advise the Secretary of State on the exercise of his functions under Section 7 of the Industry Act 1972. That is quite clear and there is no disagreement about it. Its prime purpose is to provide detailed appraisals of commercial investment proposals. It will take over on a statutory basis from the present non-statutory board.

These amendments refer to Clause 11 of the Welsh Development Agency Bill and Clause 3 of the Industry Bill 1975.

In both there is reference to the exercise of the Section 7 functions by the Agency and the NEB. However in both circumstances the functions being exercised still remain those of the Secretary of State under Section 7 of the Industry Act 1972. The Board will advise under Section 7 of that Act. Clause 11 of this Bill and Clause 3 of the Industry Bill refer to the powers under Section 7. Clause 11 states: In any case where it appears to the Secretary of State that the powers conferred on him by section 7 of the Industry Act 1972… It is quite clear that the Advisory Board will advise the Secretary of State on the exercise of those powers and therefore these two amendments become unnecessary.

Like many hon. Members, I have become an expert on the Scottish Development Agency Bill, which contains this provision. There is no reason for it to be included in this Bill, as the meaning is quite obvious. Clause 11 of the Bill has no meaning apart from the Section 7 reference.

Mr. Wyn Roberts

Will the Minister confirm that the National Enterprise Board could, therefore, not operate under Clause 3 of the Industry Bill in Wales in relation to financial assistance without the advice of the Welsh Industrial Development Advisory Board?

Mr. Jones

In general that would be true. It would certainly apply to any considerable activity in that sphere. However, we could not give a 100 per cent. assurance because there could be minor transactions. For example, if the NEB were giving financial assistance to a firm whose major functions took place in England but which had some subsidiary activity in Wales, a small piece could slip through the net. However, basically there will be co-operation and co-ordination between the two bodies.

Mr. Wigley

I have listened with interest to the remarks made by the Under-Secretary. His assurances are a little surprising. I have read quickly through Clause 3 of the Industry Bill. I shall need time to digest what the hon. Gentleman has said. I find it difficult to believe that it is all covered by this, particularly as other hon. Members felt the same about the Scottish Bill. It seems that we are trying to do the same thing.

If those who have done the Minister's homework are quite convinced about this, I am willing to accept his word and on that basis I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.