OVERSEAS AID (Hansard, 23 October 1975)

§ The Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Barry Jones)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
The clause has been introduced at the request of the Ministry for Overseas Development. Its purpose is to ensure that the Agency is able to make its skills and experience available to the Governments of overseas countries and other authorities and bodies in those countries if it should be invited to do so.
The House may like to know that parallel clauses were added to the Industry Bill and the Scottish Development Agency Bill.

§ Mr. Wyn Roberts (Conway)
The relevant section of the Overseas Aid Act 1966 empowers the Minister for Overseas Development to give assistance, whether financial, technical or of any other nature…and such assistance, other than financial, may be provided free of charge or on such terms as to payment as the Minister may determine. The purpose of the clause is obviously to ensure that the Agency is reimbursed if financial assistance is given to a country outside the United Kingdom through the Agency.
728 The Question we wish to ask, naturally, is whether the Government have some particular project in mind at this stage or whether the clause is being inserted simply to provide against that event. I do not think that a parallel clause is included in the Scotish Development Agency Bill, and this prompts me to ask what lies behind the insertion of this clause at this stage into this Bill.

§ Mr. Barry Jones
The Scottish Development Agency Bill has a parallel clause in it.

§ Mr. Roberts
I am grateful to the Under-Secretary.
There are many firms in Wales which could, and indeed do, give the sort of technical assistance required by an overseas country as envisaged in the 1966 Act. Presumably the Government think that the cross-subsidisation that would occur if the clause were operated by the transfer of money from overseas development funds to the Agency could be helpful to the Agency and the firms in which it might have an interest in Wales.
We would prefer the Agency to make a profit rather than simply be reimbursed for services rendered overseas. Otherwise we see no reason to oppose the inclusion of the clause, although we would assume that the Agency would have enough work to do at home without embarking on profitless activities abroad. However, perhaps this is taking too narrow a view.

§ Mr. Dafydd Wigley (Caernarvon)
In welcoming the proposed clause, may I ask the Under-Secretary to cast his mind back to the Committee stage, when I proposed a new Clause 2 designed to develop both an international and what one might call a regional structure for the Agency? At that time the Government rejected such proposals. The implication at the time was that there should not be any formal international aspects of the Agency.
Obviously we welcome any change which the Government adopt in this direction, but if they are thinking in terms of international dimensions for the Agency I should like to press on them the need for a greater formalisation of links between the Agency and possibly the Welsh Development Corporation, which 729 is doing such useful work in the international context.
We ought to be looking for contacts which might help us develop our industry—it is a two-way traffic—if we are having an involvement overseas. I welcome the clause so far as it goes, but I am surprised that it does pot go further.

§ Mr. Barry Jones
As the hon. Member for Conway (Mr. Roberts) said, the clause empowers the Agency, with the consent of the Secretary of State, to enter into and carry out agreements with the maximum of overseas development. I appreciate the view expressed by the hon. Member for Caernarvon (Mr. Wigley). I recollect his remarks in Committee. The clause empowers the Agency to provide assistance outside the official aid programme by entering into and carrying out, with the consent of the Secretary of State and the Minister for Overseas Development, agreements with overseas Governments and other authorities. The costs of furnishing technical assistance in such cases will be met by the authorities concerned.

§ Mr. Wigley
In having this link with overseas countries, if there were to arise from such a link the possibility of a two-way flow of information which would help us with the possibility of new markets, may I take it that the Agency would not be debarred from taking advantage of those opportunities?

§ Mr. Barry Jones
I am not able to respond in the way that the hon. Member would like me to on this point.