§ 1. Mr. Canavanasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he intends any adjustment of the policies of his Department, in view of Her Majesty's Government's anti-inflationary policy as outlined in the White Paper, The Attack on Inflation, Command Paper No. 6151.
§ The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Roy Mason)Only in the same way that every other Department will have to adjust its practices to implement the measures.
§ Mr. CanavanHas the closure of the Admiralty armament depot at Brandeath anything to do with the Government's anti-inflation policy? Does not my right hon. Friend agree that it is rather anomalous for his Department, at this time of economic crisis, to be involved in an increase in public expenditure as well as contributing to an increase in unemployment? Will he consult the Department of Employment about this aspect of the problem?
§ Mr. MasonNo decision has been made to close the Royal Naval Arma- 216 ment Depot at Brandeath, and this has nothing to do with the anti-inflationary policy, but if closure proposals for defence establishments, either due to the Defence Review or to rationalisation, concern Brandeath, the staff and the trade unions will be fully consulted.
§ Mr. PattieWill not the Secretary of State agree that, no matter how many White Papers there have been since, the Defence White Paper represents the Government's view of the absolute minimum expenditure necessary to maintain our security? Is that still the Government's view?
§ Mr. MasonYes, I am still planning defence based upon the proposals in the last Defence White Paper, other than the £110 million cut in the last budgetary statement.
§ Mr. CrawshawWill my right hon. Friend assure the House that, whatever cuts are made, they will not impair the ability of the Regular reserve forces to do training? Is he aware that there is grave concern in both forces that the lack of petrol, for one thing, is making them unable to undertake training? Is he further aware that there is the possibility in the near future—I say this without wishing to be an alarmist—of having units not trained because they have been unable to go on exercises?
§ Mr. MasonI am afraid that I cannot give my hon. Friend the complete assurances that he would like. The increase in oil costs and the effects of the defence review are bound to have some effect on training. Nevertheless, my hon. Friend will have noticed that we are now in the midst of an exercise called "Inside Right" in which we are carrying out the mobilisation procedures of both Regulars and the TAVR.
§ Mr. TuckIs my right hon. Friend aware that Britain spends no less than 5.2 per cent. of her gross national product on defence, whereas the average for the 11 NATO countries, excluding Portugal, is 2.7 per cent., and with Portugal included only 3.3 per cent.? Why is it that Britain has to spend so much more as a percentage of her GNP than the other NATO countries?
§ Mr. MasonNo doubt my hon. Friend will catch up with what the Defence 217 White Paper revealed some months ago. Because we have been expending cash on overseas or international commitments which are not purely NATO but have now decided to withdraw from our major bases overseas, we are now carrying out the Manifesto commitment to bring down our defence expenditure in line with that of our major European allies, and during the course of the next four years we shall be saving £2,000 million.
§ 21. Mr. Frank Allaunasked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the effect so far on the policies and expenditure of his Department in the light of Her Majesty's Government's anti-inflationary policy as outlined in the White Paper, The Attack on Inflation.
§ Mr. MasonI would refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave earlier this afternoon to my hon. Friend the Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. Canavan).
§ Mr. AllaunWhat is the value of colossal military might if it means economic bankruptcy? Did not my right hon. Friend contradict himself earlier this afternoon? Did he not say that the economies would affect arms only in the same way as other Departments were affected, and a minute later also say that his policy was still based on the defence White Paper? Surely in the light of the present economic situation he must review his arms White Paper and conduct a second review forthwith?
§ Mr. MasonUntil the public expenditure survey is complete my defence policy is based on the last Defence White Paper. I cannot put it more clearly than that.
§ Mr. YoungerAs jobs in the defence industries are being so badly affected by inflation, does not the right hon. Gentleman consider in retrospect that it was wrong of him to commit himself to buying missiles from abroad without at the same time getting a categoric assurance from the United States and France that they would buy British equipment? Will he give an assurance that he will not sign on the dotted line for these orders until there are reciprocal orders from those other two countries?
§ Mr. MasonI have indicated that the orders are subject to negotiations with the French and the Americans. The hon. 218 Member will probably be aware that on the American deal the United States Secretary of State Mr. Schlesinger came to the United Kingdom two or three weeks ago. During the course of that visit we both signed a memorandum of understanding dealing with defence equipment sales between Britain and America hoping that gradually over a period of time we should be able to rectify the imbalance in the purchases of defence equipment. No doubt that MOU will be borne in mind when we negotiate on Sub-Harpoon.