HC Deb 20 October 1975 vol 898 cc12-3
9. Mr. Trotter

asked the Secretary of State for Industry what have been the total losses incurred by each of Govan Shipbuilders, Cammell Laird and Harland and Wolff since they came into public ownership; and what is his estimate of the total losses likely to be incurred in the present year by the three concerns together.

Mr. Varley

The aggregated losses of Govan Shipbuilders Ltd. from July 1972 to December 1974 have amounted to £8.6 million. Cammell Laird Shipbuilders Ltd. became 50 per cent. Government-owned on 10th June 1970 and up to the end of 1974 had made no losses. The audited accounts for these companies for 1975 will not be available until some months after the close of their financial years, which end in December 1975. Questions relating to Harland and Wolff should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.

Mr. Trotter

Is it not the case that the Minister's Department is responsible for advising on the efficiency of these yards and obtaining information from them as to their cash flow and productivity? Has not the record been positively abysmal? How can the right hon. Gentleman say that the example shown by State ownership in these cases leads him to put to the House in the near future an extension of State ownership to those yards in private ownership which have been profitable by comparison with those in State ownership?

Mr. Varley

The hon. Gentleman is over-simplifying. If he has a quarrel over Govan Shipbuilders, he should conduct it with his right hon. Friend the Member for Knutsford (Mr. Davies), who, as Secretary of State, brought it into public ownership. We did not disagree at the time. There is no doubt that the problems of the British shipbuilding industry are formidable, and I am convinced that the only way in which we shall be able to maintain a British industry is by public ownership.

Mr. Heffer

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is precisely because Govan Shipbuilders and Cammell Laird, under private enterprise, got into great financial difficulties that they had to be bailed out by the Government of the day, whether Conservative or Labour? Is it not clear that the whole British shipbuilding industry over the past two decades has been declining, and that only public ownership can make it viable?

Mr. Varley

I entirely agree. There is world over-capacity in shipbuilding, but our productivity has been abysmal, due partly to low investment and partly to labour problems. The only way in which we shall be able to preserve a British shipbuilding industry is by public ownership.

Mr. Heseltine

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain what changes will follow, if the shipbuilding industry is taken into public ownership, which will help to solve its problem?

Mr. Varley

We hope that an integrated structure and proper strategy for the industry will ensure that we overcome at least some of these problems, making sure that we shall be able to maintain our share of the market, which will go down if we do not have a proper structure for the industry. I hope that the hon. Gentleman agrees, and that when the Bill comes before the House, in the light of the industry's problems, the Government will receive the co-operation of the Opposition in ensuring that it reaches the statute book as quickly as posible.