HC Deb 15 October 1975 vol 897 cc1334-8
2. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on the house building programme.

14. Mr. Skinner

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what are the latest figures for house building in the public and private sectors.

15. Mr. Gould

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what are the latest figures available for housing starts in both the public and private sectors.

Mr. Crosland

This is also the answer to part of the Question asked by the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Macfarlane). Comparing the three months June-August of this year with the same three months last year, on a seasonally adjusted basis, public sector starts were up by 14 per cent., private sector starts by 61 per cent., and total starts by 32 per cent. Public sector completions were up by 24 per cent., private sector completions by 28 per cent., and total completions by 26 per cent. We have thus made an encouraging recovery from the disastrous situation which we inherited when we took office. But I still want to see the figures substantially higher.

Mr. Allaun

Will my right hon. Friend now support the call made by the TUC last month for a massive housing programme, which would help to kill two birds with one stone—unemployment and homelessness? Secondly, will he resist any further cuts in housing expenditure and, indeed, the drastic cuts in other public expenditure with which we are now threatened?

Mr. Crosland

As to the latter part of the question, I think my hon. Friend is well aware of my views on public expenditure. I favour the highest possible level of public expenditure. It is a view that I have held for very many years. As regards the first part of the question, there is nothing that I would like better than more money for housing. But this is not a question of housing policy; this is a question of general reflationary policy. The Government's policy, as stated by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the Labour Party conference, was endorsed by an enormous majority.

Mr. Skinner

Does my right hon. Friend realise that the figures which he has mentioned would have been even better were it not for the fact that many local authorities—they are mainly Tory-controlled but not always; in Liverpool they are Liberal-controlled—are claiming that the Government cuts are preventing them from building the houses that they would like to build? This is complete and utter nonsense. Perhaps my right hon. Friend will explain the matter more fully, but will he take it from me that there are many people in the Labour Party—not necessarily inside the Tribune Group—who feel that every possible resistance must be offered to any cutback in public expenditure, with particular reference to housing. We need to ensure that when we have to go to the country again at least we can say that—

Mr. Speaker

Order. We are not yet at that stage of speech-making.

Mr. Crosland

Tribune Group or no Tribune Group, I have a lot of sympathy with what my hon. Friend has said. I have said many times that I think the sensible course for a Government, given the present economic climate, is to take out a limited number of priorities. In my view housing should be one of those priorities. That should be done so that when we go to the country again we can say that even though we could not do everything we would have liked to do, at least in some limited areas, such as housing, we made a success.

Mr. Michael Latham

Is it not the fact that in the quarter May-July this year there was a 12 per cent. fall in the orders for new council houses? Does this not show what many people suspect, namely, that the council housing increase has its peak because many councils are finding it too expensive to build houses?

Mr. Crosland

No, Sir. I have given the figures for the past three months both for starts and completions. If I were to have given the figures for the first eight months of this year they would have shown an equally favourable picture. Of course, from month to month, starts, completions and orders invariably fluctuate. That is why one can never take a single month but must always take—as I have this afternoon—a three-months' period.

Mr. Gould

Is my right hon. Friend aware that although industrialised building techniques have always been viewed with suspicion by the British construction industry they have made a notable contribution in other countries, such as Norway, which has been rather more successful than we have in dealing with housing problems? What consideration is being given to the direct encouragement of industrialised building, in view of the fact that in this area of the construction industry there is a growing level of unemployment?

Mr. Crosland

My hon. Friend has been good enough to write to me on this subject and, as he knows, I have said that I should be very pleased to talk to him about it. Incidentally, different views are held amongst experts about the precise rôle that industrialised buildings should have in the house-building programme. However, in our circular "Housing Needs and Action" we stress the part which industrialised building could play and, even more strongly, the part which the standardisation of components could play, because that may prove to be the most fruitful and productive line of advance.

Mr. Michael Morris

Is the Secretary of State aware that in absolute terms the number of homes he is producing at present is an absolute disaster in human terms? Is he aware that in respect of improvement grants, which are equally a part of the house-building programme, the figure of 37,700 for the latest quarter is about 10,000 down on the previous comparable quarter? What action is he taking to ensure that the improvement grant programme is moving ahead?

Mr. Crosland

If the hon. Gentleman considers that the present house-building figures are an absolute disaster, being about one-third above what they were under the Conservatives, I should be interested to know what word he would apply to the house-building record of his own party when it was in power.

Mr. Joseph Dean

I compliment my right hon. Friend on the increase in the figures that he has announced today. However, what action does he propose to take to stop the eroding of the benefits of these increased figures in cases where council houses are being sold by Conservative-controlled authorities in stress areas at a far higher rate than that at which the waiting lists are growing, thus exacerbating what is already a very serious problem in stress areas?

Mr. Crosland

I am aware of the problem and I have it closely under review. To put the picture into perspective, the sale of council houses at present compared with what it was five years ago is a mere trickle.

Mr. Raison

Is the Secretary of State aware that in his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Melton (Mr. Latham) he was clearly trying to duck the issue, no doubt as part of his campaign to please the Tribune Group? Why else did the right hon. Gentleman answer a question about public expenditure in terms which clearly carried no conviction? Will he acknowledge that the prospects for council housing are extremely uncertain, because of the high cost of interest rates to which my hon. Friend referred? Is he aware that in the private sector the future is much less sure and confident than he has implied? The fact is that all this depends on a worsening economic situation.

Mr. Crosland

As to my desire to please the Tribune Group, I am sure that its ex-chairman will bear me out when I say that of the present members of the Front Bench I am the main target of hostile criticism by the Tribune Group.

On the point raised by the hon. Member, I point out that there has been an encouraging and important improvement. It is deeply depressing and cynical to find no acknowledgment of that fact coming from the Opposition.