HC Deb 14 October 1975 vol 897 cc1110-3
3. Dr. Edmund Marshall

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will now announce his proposals for amending the law in respect of school transport.

4. Mr. Lawrence

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he can now make a statement on his intentions with regard to the implementation of the recommendations of the Working Party report on School Buses.

Mr. Mulley

Proposals for new transport arrangements have been sent to the local authority associations and other interested organisations. There is, however, no easy answer to the many problems involved, and I do not expect full replies to be available for some considerable time.

Dr. Marshall

Considering that it is two years since the working party on school transport submitted its report, does my right hon. Friend appreciate that parents throughout the country are growing impatient with the long delay in introducing new legislation on this matter, and that they look to the Government to make up their mind even if the local authorities cannot make up theirs?

Mr. Mulley

It would be wrong to enter into a completely different system of supplying school transport without full consultation with the local authorities. They have set up working parties to study my proposals and it is only reasonable to give them sufficient time.

Mr. Kershaw

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that this question has become more urgent than ever in view of the remarkable rise in bus fares recently? Is he aware that numerous families are paying £6 and even £8 a week—which is a heavy impost—for their children to get to school?

Mr. Mulley

I accept the serious nature of the problem, which is why I am trying to find a solution which does not add to public expenditure. It would probably mean that some who now get free public transport would make a contribution while others who now pay the full economic cost would get it below the full economic cost.

Mrs. Bain

Bearing in mind the recent rise in transport costs and the Government's commitment to free education for all, will not the right hon. Gentleman recommend an interim measure whereby, until the local authority working parties have reported, the age level for the half fare would be raised from 14 to 16?

Mr. Mulley

This is strictly a matter not for the education authorities but for the transport undertakings. It would, of course, involve the transport undertakings requiring a further subsidy in place of the fares that they would forgo. But this is really a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment.

Mr. Conlan

Does not my right hon. Friend understand that unless haste is made in making changes in the present unsatisfactory arrangements we shall have many repetitions of the recent case of a 14½-year-old girl being turned off a bus because she could not pay the adult fare? Apparently, youngsters are being treated as children by local education authorities but as adults by the local transport authorities.

Mr. Mulley

I am not sure whether the girl was making a journey to school or elsewhere, but if my hon. Friend will let me have details of the case, I shall see what I can do—subject, of course, to the restrictions on my power.

Mr. St. John-Stevas

Is it not sad that a former Minister of Transport should be so indifferent and complacent about the virtual breakdown of the school transport service, particularly in rural areas? Is it not time that we had some indication of his attitude, first, on the whole principle of giving parents a right to public transport and, secondly, on getting rid of the anomalies of the present law relating to distances and fares?

Mr. Mulley

It is to deal with the present anomalies that I have made my proposals to the local authority associations. To get rid of those anomalies will mean that some who now get free transport will have to pay. That is the essence of the difficulties. In the light of the hon. Gentleman's strictures, I must remind him that he was a Minister in the Department of Education and Science for a longer time after the report was received than I have been. Within six weeks of taking office, I put my proposals to the local authority associations.

Mr. George Rodgers

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the National Bus Company operating in Ribble, in the Lancashire area, has increased charges for children from one-half to two-thirds of the adult fare, which in many cases is costing local parents one-fifth or one-sixth of the total family income on getting their children to school? This will have an impact on the charges of the county, which is paying above the three-mile limit for children to get to school, which means a subsequent charge on the rates.

Mr. Mulley

I appreciate the problem, but my hon. Friend has put his finger on the difficulty. What we would like to do—greatly extend the provision of school transport—would greatly increase the rate burden, an anxiety which has been expressed to me by the local authority associations.