THE AUTHORITY (Hansard, 13 October 1975)

§ Mr. Wyn Roberts (Conway)
I beg to move Amendments No. 42, in page 10, line 34, at end insert: 'who shall subject to section 15(5) below, either—

(a) lay a copy of each direction given under this subsection before each House of Parliament within 28 days of giving it; or

(b) lay a copy later but lay with it a statement of the reason why a copy was not laid within 28 days'.

§ Mr. Speaker
With this we can also discuss Government Amendment No. 279, and Amendments No. 54, in Clause 15, page 13, line 39, leave out 'national'; No. 55: after 'interest', insert 'of public security'; No. 58, in page 14, line 4, at end insert— '(5) If a report so laid sets out a direction under section 10(3) above, a copy of which 994 has not been laid in accordance with that subsection (as amended), a statement of the reason why the copy was not so laid shall be annexed to the Agency's report by the Secretary of State and the said subsection (3) shall not apply to the direction'.

§ Mr. Roberts
The purpose of this amendment and Amendment No. 58 is clearly to ensure that this House is kept well informed about the directions given by the Secretary of State to the Land Authority. As the Bill stands we would not know what directions have been given until the publication of the annual report—long after the event to which a direction may relate. This amendment and the consequential amendment bring the Land Authority into line with the Welsh Development Agency. The text of these amendments is taken from the measure establishing that agency.
If the requirement of laying before Parliament within 28 days a copy of each direction given to the agency or laying a copy later with a statement explaining why it was not laid earlier is acceptable to the Government in connection with the agency, why is it not acceptable in connection with the Land Authority? The authority is a similar body. It consists of half a dozen people nominated by the Secretary of State and directly responsible to him. Four will be appointed after consultation with the local authority organisations but they will be the Secretary of State's men, responsible to him rather than to their electors, if they are elected representatives, for what they do as members of the Authority.
In defending this nominated body the Under-Secretary spoke rather vaguely of the Government's devolution proposals but ended by saying that there was a strong democratic case for ensuring that the Authority was directly answerable to the Secretary of State who is responsible to this House. We wish to ensure that the Secretary of State is answerable, and it is difficult to see how we can do so unless we know what directions he is giving to the Authority.
There is a further point. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mr. Page) pointed out in Committee, only the Land Authority for Wales has to comply with directions given by the Secretary of State under Clause 10(3). The directions that have to be complied with are unspecified and this subsection may well be unconstitutional. Elsewhere in the Bill 995 directions have to be taken into account by the various Authorities concerned, including the Land Authority for Wales. There is an ambiguity here. We asked that it should be cleared up but the Government do not appear to have done anything about it. That is all the more reason why the Secretary of State should lay copies of his directions before the House so that we can see precisely what is his relationship with the Land Authority.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Mr. Sainsbury) suggested in Committee that we should not have to wait for the annual report of the Authority before learning what directions had been given. The Under-Secretary said that that was a fair point and that the proceedings of the Authority would be open to the public and the Press. I do not see why this House should have to rely on the Press for information of this kind when it could be laid formally before the House as is the case with the Welsh Development Agency. Some of us think that this House is perhaps too dependent on the media for information which the Government ought to supply direct.
The purpose of Amendments Nos. 54 and 55 is to substitute a more acceptable description of the power of the Secretary of State to limit the publication of directions and their substance in the annual report. This is amply covered by Government Amendment No. 279.

§ Mr. Alec Jones
I must advise my right hon. and hon. Friends to reject Amendment No. 42, and Amendment No. 58, which is related to it. The amendment seems to be motivated by some degree of suspicion concerning the giving of directions by my right hon. Friend to the Land Authority for Wales. I start in the good old-fashioned way by saying that there are good precedents for this. Such precedents can be found in the Maplin Development Act 1973 and the Water Act 1973. I know what a passionate supporter of the Water Act the hon. Member for Conway (Mr. Roberts) was. I merely indicate the stable from which these directions emanate. But I accept that Parliament has a legitimate interest in the directions given by the Secretary of State under Clause 10(3).
996 The hon. Gentleman referred to the annual report. It is in the annual report that Parliament will find the best means of examining the directions which have been made by my right hon. Friend. I make that point because it is one special reason why Amendment No. 42 cannot be accepted. On reflection, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will agree. The annual report, however, will not include directions which the Secretary of State has notified the Authority should not be included, because it would be against the national interest or national security to do so. The Opposition amendment makes no provision for excluding from laying even directions whose publication would be contrary to national security, so that on that specific ground the Government cannot accept Amendment No. 42. However, that is not the only reason, and I do not find it very easy to accept the hon. Gentleman's words about the Government not knowing what directions were laid. The hon. Gentleman knows the people of Wales a little better than that. I am sure that, in view of the fact that these meetings are open to the Press and the public, everyone who has an atom of interest in these matters will know of them. Far from there being any slight on Parliament by having the information straight from these public open meetings, it means that directions which have been laid will be made known to Members of Parliament far sooner than if we accept any other means of doing so. I am satisfied that as soon as hon. Members representing Welsh constituencies became aware of any general or limited directions laid in this manner, they would soon find the means of bringing them to the attention of this House.
Amendment No. 58 is related to this, and I have given the reason why we cannot accept the first part of it. As regards the second part, we believe that there is no merit in the proposal that the Land Authority should not be bound by a direction under Clause 10(3) which has not been presented to Parliament. In our view this would not be in the public interest. But I agree that there is a parliamentary interest in this matter. Nevertheless the primary interest will be most felt by those directly involved and concerned with the transactions and the discussion.
997 Directions from the Secretary of State will help the community land scheme to operate smoothly and for the benefit of Wales as a whole, and it is quite feasible that in the event of a dispute between the Land Authority and a local authority a direction would be one means by which such a dispute could be resolved satisfactorily.
I am glad to hear that Amendments Nos. 54 and 55 are not to be moved and that Amendment 279 is acceptable to the Opposition. The Government have introduced Amendment No. 279 to meet the criticism originally made by the Opposition.
I ask my hon. Friends to vote against Amendment Nos. 42 and 58 and, when the time is appropriate, to support Amendment No. 279.

§ Mr. Wyn Roberts
I ask the hon. Gentleman to clear up the point which I made about Amendments Nos. 42 and 58. The substance is to be found in the Welsh Development Agency Bill. Although the hon. Gentleman referred to the Water Act and to the Maplin Development Act, the 998 fact is that the Welsh Development Agency Bill is this Government's own product and a far later one. The Minister may think that it is a better example to follow.

§ Mr. Alec Jones
I do not really see that—

§ Mr. Jones
It seems to me that the Land Authority for Wales is a very different organisation from the Welsh Development Agency. The Welsh Development Agency has such a wide range of different powers that I do not think it can be compared with this specific agency whose primary concern will be the acquisition or management of land in Wales.