§
Amendment made: No. 273, in page 9, leave out lines 18 and 19 and insert:
'"charity" has the same meaning as in section 360 of the Income and Corporation Taxes Act 1970 and as respects Scotland "charitable" shall be construed as if it were contained in that Act;
community council" means a community council in Wales'.—[Mr. Harry Ewing.])
§ The Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Alec Jones)I beg to move Amendment No. 274, in page 9, line 29, at end insert:
'"parish council" includes a parish meeting and the parish trustees of a parish'.
Mr. Deputy SpeakerWith this we may take Amendment No. 130, in Clause 20, page 19, line 15, at end insert:
'or the parish trustees of a parish in England'.
§ Mr. JonesHon. Members will appreciate that this is not exactly an earth-shattering amendment, but nevertheless it is one which is essential because in Clauses 6 and 20 we refer to a parish council and, having referred to it, we ought to give a definition of what we mean by it. In the circumstances, I feel that the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton) might be prepared to withdraw his Amendment No. 130, since that amendment becomes unnecessary, being superseded by the very complicated amendment which I have just moved.
§ Amendment agreed to.
986§ Mr. Alec JonesI beg to move Amendment No. 275, in page 9, line 30, leave out 'or particulars in'.
Mr. Deputy SpeakerWith this we may take Amendment No. 351, in Clause 55, page 47, line 6, leave out
'and particulars to be contained in'.
§ Mr. JonesI am sure, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that you will soon appreciate that my colleagues are giving me all the complicated amendments to deal with!
Since in this Bill we are taking powers to prescribe the forms, one can hardly prescribe the forms without actually prescribing the contents or the particulars of those forms. This is merely a common sense amendment.
§ 9.30 p.m.
§ Mr. Graham PageThe hon. Gentleman cannot get away with this one quite so easily. Surely, if one prescribes a form, one does not necessarily prescribe all the particulars to go into that form. The form may set out certain questions, asking for name and address or whatever it may be, and one may prescribe the shape of the form to be delivered, but it may be necessary for the Secretary of State on occasion to prescribe the particulars to be provided in a document.
I cannot for the life of me see why, once having put this requirement into the clause and given the Minister power to prescribe documents under Clause 55, we should now think it necessary to take the words out. They were perfectly clear as they stood in the Bill, giving the Minister power to prescribe the form and to prescribe the particulars to go into that form. If he prescribes the form, that does not necessarily mean that he prescribes the information which he wants in the form. The Bill was all right as it stood. I should be only too pleased to cut a lot out of the Bill, but not this.
§ Mr. Alec JonesI am surprised that my attempts to simplify matters have encountered such disapproval from the right hon. Member for Crosby (Mr. Page). The advice I am given is that it is hardly possible to prescribe a form without prescribing the particulars in that form, and that therefore these words are not necessary. Hence, we propose to leave out the reference to the prescription of the actual particulars in the form. 987 It is the phrase "or particulars in" that we propose to remove.
§ Amendment agreed to.