HC Deb 11 November 1975 vol 899 cc1128-30
17. Mr. Canavan

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will pay a visit to Stirling University.

Mr. Mulley

I have no such plans at present.

Mr. Canavan

Will my right hon. Friend please try to arrange a visit to Stirling University, which is in my constituency, so that he can see at first hand the effect of some of the cuts in educational expenditure? Will he give me the chance to introduce him to many of the students who are suffering real hardship because of inadequate grants, and to many of the staff who are doing a good job and yet are receiving a lower salary than are many people who are doing a similar job in other educational establishments?

Mr. Mulley

I should certainly not wish to go to Stirling University without the benefit of the counsel and, if possible, the presence of my hon. Friend the Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. Canavan). I was appointed to my present position when the universities were about to start their summer vacation. I have so far managed to visit three universities, but I hope to visit more in the future. However, in view of the financial constraints, the message which I have received everywhere is not dissimilar to that which my hon. Friend has put forward concerning Stirling University. There is no doubt that the financial position is a great strain on our universities and I want to pay tribute to the work which they are doing. I do not know of any area in the world where higher education is organised as effectively and so efficiently in cost-benefit terms as in the United Kingdom.

Mrs. Bain

Does the Minister agree that one way of protecting our universities in Scotland and enabling them to have a larger budget would be to ensure that the Scottish universities come under the Scottish Assembly and are not governed by the United Kingdom Government through a British University Grants Committee?

Mr. Mulley

The hon. Lady should not tempt me to try to anticipate my right hon. Friend's White Paper. Whatever his view on the matter mentioned by the hon. Lady, I should need more persuasive arguments than hers to come to the conclusion that she seems to have reached.

Dr. Hampson

The right hon. Gentleman paid a fine tribute to the universities. Is he aware that nothing has damaged morale more than the way that the university staff's pay claim has been bungled and the degree to which there has been procrastination under this Government? Is he also aware that the university staff are not trying to break the pay limits established by the Government, but that they feel sore at having been let down by the Secretary of State when the starting date was fixed at 1st September and not 1st October? Will he admit publicly that they have suffered an injustice, and will he try to correct the situation as soon as circumstances permit?

Mr. Mulley

I do not know where the hon. Gentleman got his information from. I do not think that any of the university staff would want the Government's counter-inflation policy to be broken specifically for them. As to the date of the settlement, if the hon. Gentleman had a vestige of knowledge about the problem, he would know that the 12-months rule is an integral part of trying to contain wage inflation, as is the £6 limit. If the Opposition would go on record and say that they do not care about trying to stick to the 12-months rule, or about defending the £6 limit, we would know exactly where we were.