HC Deb 11 November 1975 vol 899 cc1132-4
Ql. Mrs. Chalker

asked the Prime Minister if the public speech on the National Health Service of the Secretary of State for Social Services of 9th October at Folkestone represents Government policy.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Wilson)

Yes, Sir.

Mrs. Chalker

Will the Prime Minister explain to the House how he intends to fulfil his right hon. Friend's pledge not to reduce the size of the private sector but merely to separate it, when most of the private beds in the Mersey and North-West regional hospital areas are in National Health Service hospitals?

The Prime Minister

That matter was fully explained not only by me in the House but by my right hon. Friend in the debate, when the Opposition, with singular ineffectiveness, tried to halve my right hon. Friend's salary. This matter was also fully discussed on my statement on the Royal Commission. If the hon. Lady has any particular hospital in mind, as she may have, she will no doubt table a Question to my right hon. Friend.

Mr. Tomlinson

Will my right hon. Friend turn his attention to the conduct of the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph), who, in an interview in the New York Times, published yesterday, chose to indulge in splashing mud on his country—his own description of it—while at the same time the Leader of the Opposition goes about calling generally for public expenditure cuts—not specifying where they should be—which, if acted upon, would damage the social life of this country no end?

The Prime Minister

I was sorry to see the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph), who has high standards, following the lead given by his Leader in what he said yesterday in the matter of—to use his own phrase—" throwing mud against his own country". I think that the whole House will agree that political bile is one thing, for our domestic exchanges, but it is a singularly unattractive form of export abroad.

Mr. Hooson

Does the Prime Minister agree that one of the great deficiencies in the National Health Service at the moment is the high proportion of its income that is spent on administration? Does not that stem directly from the reform introduced by the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph)? What do the Government intend to do about what seems to be the Achilles heel of the National Health Service?

The Prime Minister

The hon. and learned Gentleman is right. Indeed, when answering questions about the Royal Commission, I indicated that I agreed with the view that he expressed. Considering the increases in public expenditure, bureaucracy, and the public sector borrowing requirement, it is clear that a high responsibility rests on right hon. Ladies and Gentlemen opposite in respect of the so-called reorganisation of health, water and local government.

Mr. Bryan Davies

Will my right hon. Friend convey to the Secretary of State for Social Services the warmest congratulations of Labour Members of Parliament and of all fair-minded people in the country on winning for the Health Service a greater share of resources than before? Will he encourage my right hon. Friend to pursue her policy of directing these resources to areas where they will do most good, rather than to specialities which attract the greatest attention from members of the medical profession?

The Prime Minister

My hon. Friend is right. The House has already been given the figure. I think that 5.4 per cent. of the gross national product is now going to the National Health Service. We have still to hear from the unspecific expenditure cutters opposite whether, in the coming year, they wish us to cut expenditure on the National Health Service.

Mr. Ian Lloyd

As the Prime Minister is rightly concerned with political bile, may I ask him to state the Government's attitude towards the two hospital porters in Portsmouth who recently carried their political prejudice to the point where they were prepared to discriminate between the dead?

The Prime Minister

I know nothing about this case. No doubt the hon. Gentleman will table a Question to my right hon. Friend. I have in the past expressed, and would again now express, the strongest revulsion against any political action of that kind, even against the living, not to mention the dead.