§ Lords Amendment: No. 180, in page 90, line 30, at end insert "(a) in".
§ Mr. John SilkinI beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.
§ Mr. SpeakerWith this we are to discuss Lords Amendments Nos. 181, 182, 183, 185 and 186 and the amendments to Nos. 181 and 183.
§ Mr. SilkinThe Government see no reason to go as far as the Lords amendment now does to give an owner of a material interest an absolute right of veto over the making of a planning application on land in which he has an interest. The Government are therefore prepared to agree to the Lords amendments only with the deletion of paragraph (b) in each case. I ought to explain that by leaving out head (b) is meant in each case leaving out from "relates" in line 6 to the end of line 7 of Amendments Nos. 181 and 183.
It is our view that the inclusion of paragraph (a) affords adequate protection to the landowner. The Planning Acts already require anyone applying for planning permission on land which he does not own to serve notice on the owners. There is then an opportunity for the owners to make representations to the local planning authority, which can take them into account in reaching a decision on the application.
There are, furthermore, two specific provisions in the Bill that adequately protect the landowner. First, there is the original provision in the Bill—as now slightly amended by the amendments introduced by the Government in the Lords. It has the effect of widening the Planning Act provisions relating to notification.
Secondly, there is specific protection for an owner's position in the "prior right" provisions in paragraph 2 of Schedule 6. Under these provisions, anyone applying for planning permission may have a prior right to negotiate to carry out development on the land if it is acquired by an authority. Paragraph 2(4) of Schedule 6 specifically provides that a person making a planning application shall have the benefit of the prior right provisions only where his application to 1484 carry out development on the land is accompanied by the written consent of all those with a material interest in the land. The Government therefore accept that there is a need to protect the position of the land owner when there is a planning application from a third party, but they maintain that this protection is afforded by paragraph (a) of the amendments together with the prior right provisions and that paragraph (b) of the amendments are unnecessary.
§ 9.0 a.m.
§ Mr. SainsburyIt is not without significance that, at the end of a very lengthy consideration of the Bill, we return again to the rights of the individual property owner. There has been some limited strengthening of those rights since this appalling Bill was presented. One consequence of the Bill is that now a planning application from a third party can trigger off a sequence of events that could lead to a farmer's being deprived of his farm by compulsory purchase without the opportunity to do other than protest ineffectively.
There is no need to go through the sequence of events that causes this to happen, but it is a direct consequence of the provisions in the Bill that again the rights of the individual property owner are seriously diminished in a way not shown at all in all the Government publicity and the White Paper. Because of this potential loss of rights of property owners, we regard head (b) of Lords Amendments Nos. 181 and 183 as essential.
§ Question put and agreed to.
§
Lords Amendment: No. 181, in page 90, line 32, leave out "shall cease to have effect and" and insert:
for the words from "that" to the end there shall be substituted the words "at the beginning of the period of twenty-one days ending with the date of the application, no person (other than the applicant) was the owner of any of the land to which the application relates", (b) in subsection (1)(b) for the words "given the requisite notice of the application to" there shall be substituted the words "obtained consent for the making of the application from" and for the words "service of each such notice" there shall be substituted the words "each such consent", and (c)".
§ Read a Second time.
§ Amendment proposed to the proposed Lords amendment: Leave out head (b).—[Mr. John Silkin.]
1485§ Question put, That the amendment to the proposed Lords amendment be made:—
| Division No. 405.] | AYES | [9.2 a.m. |
| Abse, Leo | George, Bruce | Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) |
| Allaun, Frank | Gilbert, Dr John | Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) |
| Anderson, Donald | Ginsburg, David | Mulley, Rt Hon Frederick |
| Archer, Peter | Golding, John | Murray, Rt Hon Ronald King |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Gould, Bryan | Newens, Stanley |
| Ashley, Jack | Gourlay, Harry | Noble, Mike |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston N) | Graham, Ted | Oakes, Gordon |
| Atkinson, Norman | Grant, George (Morpeth) | Ogden, Eric |
| Bagier, Gordon A. T. | Grant, John (Islington C) | O'Halloran, Michael |
| Barnett, Rt Hon Joel (Heywood) | Grocott, Bruce | O'Malley, Rt Hon Brian |
| Bean, R. E. | Hamilton, James (Bothwell) | Orbach, Maurice |
| Benn, Rt Hon Anthony Wedgwood | Hardy, Peter | Ovenden, John |
| Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N) | Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) | Owen, Dr David |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Hart, Rt Hon Judith | Palmer, Arthur |
| Bishop, E. S. | Hatton, Frank | Park, George |
| Boardman, H. | Hayman, Mrs Helene | Parker, John |
| Booth, Albert | Healey, Rt Hon Denis | Parry, Robert |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Arthur | Heffer, Eric S. | Pavitt, Laurie |
| Boyden, James (Bish Auck) | Hooley, Frank | Penhaligon, David |
| Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) | Horam, John | Price, C. (Lewisham W) |
| Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W) | Howell, Denis (B'ham, Sm H) | Price, William (Rugby) |
| Buchan, Norman | Hoyle, Doug (Nelson) | Radice, Giles |
| Buchanan, Richard | Huckfield, Les | Richardson, Miss Jo |
| Butler, Mrs Joyce (Wood Green) | Hughes, Rt Hon C. (Anglesey) | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) |
| Callaghan, Jim (Middleton & P) | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Roberts, Gwilym (Cannock) |
| Campbell, Ian | Hughes, Roy (Newport) | Robertson, John (Paisley) |
| Canavan, Dennis | Hunter, Adam | Roderick, Caerwyn |
| Cant, R. B. | Irving, Rt Hon S. (Dartford) | Rodgers, George (Chorley) |
| Carmichael, Neil | Jackson, Colin (Brighouse) | Rodgers, William (Stockton) |
| Carter, Ray | Janner, Greville | Rooker, J. W. |
| Carter-Jones, Lewis | Jeger, Mrs Lena | Roper, John |
| Cartwright, John | Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) | Ross, Rt Hon W. (Kilmarnock) |
| Castle, Rt Hon Barbara | John, Brynmor | Rowlands, Ted |
| Clemitson, Ivor | Johnson, James (Hull West) | Sandelson, Neville |
| Cocks, Michael (Bristol S) | Johnson, Walter (Derby S) | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Coleman, Donald | Jones, Alec (Rhondda) | Selby, Harry |
| Conlan, Bernard | Jones, Barry (East Flint) | Shaw, Arnold (Ilford South) |
| Cook, Robin F. (Edin C) | Jones, Dan (Burnley) | Sheldon, Robert (Ashton-u-Lyne) |
| Corbett, Robin | Judd, Frank | Short, Rt Hon E. (Newcastle C) |
| Cox, Thomas (Tooting) | Kaufman, Gerald | Short, Mrs Renée (Wolv NE) |
| Craigen, J. M. (Maryhill) | Kelley, Richard | Silkin, Rt Hon John (Deptford) |
| Crawshaw, Richard | Kerr, Russell | Silkin, Rt Hon S. C. (Dulwich) |
| Cronin, John | Kilroy-Silk, Robert | Sillars, James |
| Crosland, Rt Hon Anthony | Lambie, David | Silverman, Julius |
| Cryer, Bob | Lamborn, Harry | Small, William |
| Cunningham, G. (Islington S) | Lamond, James | Smith, John (N Lanarkshire) |
| Cunningham, Dr J. (Whiteh) | Latham, Arthur (Paddington) | Spearing, Nigel |
| Davidson, Arthur | Leadbitter, Ted | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Davies, Bryan (Enfield N) | Lee, John | Stoddart, David |
| Davies, Denzil (Llanelli) | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | Stott, Roger |
| Davies, Ifor (Gower) | Litterick, Tom | Strang, Gavin |
| Davis, Clinton (Hackney C) | Loyden, Eddie | Summerskill, Hon Dr Shirley |
| Dean, Joseph (Leeds West) | Luard, Evan | Swain, Thomas |
| Delargy, Hugh | Lyon, Alexander (York) | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton W) |
| Dell, Rt Hon Edmund | Lyons, Edward (Bradford W) | Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery) |
| Dempsey, James | Mabon, Dr J. Dickson | Thomas, Mike (Newcastle E) |
| Doig, Peter | McCartney, Hugh | Thomas, Ron (Bristol NW) |
| Dormand, J. D. | McElhone, Frank | Thorne, Stan (Preston South) |
| Douglas-Mann, Bruce | MacFarquhar, Roderick | Tierney, Sydney |
| Duffy, A. E. P. | McGuire, Michael (Ince) | Tinn, James |
| Dunnett, Jack | Mackenzie, Gregor | Tomlinson, John |
| Eadie, Alex | Maclennan, Robert | Tomney, Frank |
| Edge, Geoff | McMillan, Tom (Glasgow C) | Torney, Tom |
| Edwards, Robert (Wolv SE) | Madden, Max | Tuck, Raphael |
| Ellis, John (Brigg & Scun) | Magee, Bryan | Urwin, T. W. |
| English, Michael | Mahon, Simon | Varley, Rt Hon Eric G. |
| Evans, Ioan (Aberdare) | Mallalieu, J. P. W. | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne V) |
| Ewing, Harry (Stirling) | Marks, Kenneth | Walden, Brian (B'ham, L'dyw'd) |
| Fernyhough, Rt Hon E. | Marquand, David | Walker, Harold (Doncaster) |
| Fitch, Alan (Wigan) | Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) | Walker, Terry (Kingswood) |
| Flannery, Martin | Maynard, Miss Joan | Ward, Michael |
| Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | Meacher, Michael | Watkins, David |
| Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Mellish, Rt Hon Robert | Watkinson, John |
| Forrester, John | Mikardo, Ian | Weetch, Ken |
| Fowler, Gerald (The Wrekin) | Millan, Bruce | White, Frank R. (Bury) |
| Fraser, John (Lambeth, N'w'd) | Miller, Dr M. S. (E Kilbride) | White, James (Pollok) |
| Freeson, Reginald | Miller, Mrs Millie (Ilford N) | Whitehead, Phillip |
| Garrett, John (Norwich S) | Molloy, William | Whitlock, William |
| Garrett, W. E. (Wallsend) | Moonman, Eric | Willey, Rt Hon Frederick |
§ The House divided: Ayes 246, Noes 231.
| Williams, Alan (Swansea W) | Wise, Mrs Audrey | |
| Williams, Alan Lee (Hornch'ch) | Woodall, Alec | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Williams, Rt Hon Shirley (Hertford) | Wool, Robert | Mr. James A. Dunn and |
| Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton) | Wrigglesworth, Ian | Mr. Joseph Harper. |
| Wilson, William (Coventry SE) | Young, David (Bolton E) |
| NOES | ||
| Adley, Robert | Gorst, John | Monro, Hector |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Gow, Ian (Eastbourne) | Montgomery, Fergus |
| Alison, Michael | Gower, Sir Raymond (Barry) | More, Jasper (Ludlow) |
| Arnold, Tom | Grant, Anthony (Harrow, C) | Morgan, Geraint |
| Atkins, Rt Hon H. (Spelthorne) | Gray, Hamish | Morris, Michael (Northampton S) |
| Awdry, Daniel | Grieve, Percy | Morrison, Charles (Devizes) |
| Bain, Mrs Margaret | Griffiths, Eldon | Morrison, Hon Peter (Chester) |
| Baker, Kenneth | Grist, Ian | Mudd, David |
| Banks, Robert | Grylls, Michael | Neave, Airey |
| Beith, A. J. | Hall, Sir John | Neubert, Michael |
| Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torbay) | Hall-Davis, A. G. F. | Newton, Tony |
| Bennett, Dr Reginald (Fareham) | Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) | Nott, John |
| Benyon, W. | Hampson, Dr Keith | Onslow, Cranley |
| Berry, Hon Anthony | Hannam, John | Oppenheim, Mrs Sally |
| Biffen, John | Harrison, Col Sir Harwood (Eye) | Page, Rt Hon R. Graham (Crosby) |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Harvie Anderson, Rt Hon Miss | Pardoe, John |
| Blaker, Peter | Hastings, Stephen | Pattie, Geoffrey |
| Body, Richard | Havers, Sir Michael | Penhaligon, David |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Hawkins, Paul | Percival, Ian |
| Bottomley, Peter | Hayhoe, Barney | Peyton, Rt Hon John |
| Bowden, A. (Brighton, Kemptown) | Heseltine, Michael | Pink, R. Bonner |
| Boyson, Dr Rhodes (Brent) | Hicks, Robert | Powell, Rt Hon J. Enoch |
| Braine, Sir Bernard | Higgins, Terence L. | Price, David (Eastleigh) |
| Brittan, Leon | Holland, Philip | Pym, Rt Hon Francis |
| Brotherton, Michael | Hooson, Emlyn | Raison, Timothy |
| Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) | Hordern, Peter | Rathbone, Tim |
| Bryan, Sir Paul | Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Rees, Peter (Dover & Deal) |
| Buchanan-Smith, Alick | Howell, David (Guildford) | Rees-Davies, W. R. |
| Buck, Antony | Howells, Geraint (Cardigan) | Renton, Rt Hon Sir D. (Hunts) |
| Budgen, Nick | Hunt, John | Renton, Tim (Mid-Sussex) |
| Bulmer, Esmond | Hurd, Douglas | Ridsdale, Julian |
| Burden, F. A. | Hutchison, Michael Clark | Rifkind, Malcolm |
| Butler, Adam (Bosworth) | Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) | Roberts, Michael (Cardiff NW) |
| Carlisle, Mark | Irving, Charles (Cheltenham) | Roberts, Wyn (Conway) |
| Chalker, Mrs Lynda | James, David | Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight) |
| Channon, Paul | Jenkin, Rt Hon P. (Wanst'd & W'df'd) | Ross, William (Londonderry) |
| Churchill, W. S. | Johnson Smith, G. (E Grinstead) | Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey) |
| Clark, Alan (Plymouth, Sutton) | Jones, Arthur (Daventry) | Rost, Peter (SE Derbyshire) |
| Clark, William (Croydon S) | Jopling, Michael | Sainsbury, Tim |
| Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | Joseph, Rt Hon Sir Keith | St. John-Stevas, Norman |
| Clegg, Walter | Kaberry, Sir Donald | Scott, Nicholas |
| Cockcroft, John | Kershaw, Anthony | Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) |
| Cooke, Robert (Bristol W) | King, Evelyn (South Dorset) | Shelton, William (Streatham) |
| Cope, John | King, Tom (Bridgwater) | Shepherd, Colin |
| Cormack, Patrick | Kitson, Sir Timothy | Silvester, Fred |
| Costain, A. P. | Knight, Mrs Jill | Sims, Roger |
| Craig, Rt Hon W. (Belfast E) Crouch, David | Knox, David Lamont, Norman | Sinclair, Sir George Skeet, T. H. H. |
| Dean, Paul (N Somerset) | Langford-Holt, Sir John | Smith, Cyril (Rochdale) |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Latham, Michael (Melton) | Speed, Keith |
| Drayson, Burnaby | Lawrence, Ivan | Spence, John |
| du Cann, Rt Hon Edward | Lawson, Nigel | Spicer, Michael (S Worcester) |
| Durant, Tony | Loveridge, John | Sproat, Iain |
| Eden, Rt Hon Sir John | Luce, Richard | Stainton, Keith |
| Elliott, Sir William | McAdden, Sir Stephen | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| Emery, Peter | Macfarlane, Neil | Steen, Anthony (Wavertree) |
| Eyre, Reginald | MacGregor, John | Stewart, Ian (Hitchin) |
| Fairbairn, Nicholas | Macmillan, Rt Hon M. (Farnham) | Stokes, John |
| Fairgrieve, Russell | McNair-Wilson, M. (Newbury) | Tapsell, Peter |
| Fell, Anthony | McNair-Wilson, P. (New Forest) | Taylor, R. (Croydon NW) |
| Fisher, Sir Nigel | Madel, David | Taylor, Teddy (Cathcart) |
| Fletcher, Alex (Edinburgh N) | Marshall, Michael (Arundel) | Tebbit, Norman |
| Fletcher-Cooke, Charles | Marten, Neil | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Fookes, Miss Janet | Mates, Michael | Thatcher, Rt Hon Margaret |
| Fowler, Norman (Sutton C'f'd) | Mather, Carol | Townsend, Cyril D. |
| Fox, Marcus | Maude, Angus | Trotter, Neville |
| Fry, Peter | Maudling, Rt Hon Reginald | Tugendhat, Christopher |
| Galbraith, Hon. T. G. D. | Mawby, Ray | van Straubenzee, W. R. |
| Gardiner, George (Reigate) | Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin | Vaughan, Dr Gerard |
| Glyn, Dr Alan | Mayhew, Patrick | Viggers, Peter |
| Godber, Rt Hon Joseph | Meyer, Sir Anthony | Wainwright, Richard (Colne V) |
| Goodhart, Philip | Mills, Peter | Wakeham, John |
| Goodhew, Victor | Miscampbell, Norman | Walder, David (Clitheroe) |
| Goodlad, Alastair | Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) | Walker, Rt Hon P. (Worcester) |
| Wall, Patrick | Wiggin, Jerry | |
| Walters, Dennis | Winterton, Nicholas | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Weatherill, Bernard | Young, Sir G. (Ealing, Acton) | Mr. Spencer Le Marchant and |
| Walls, John | Younger, Hon George | Mr. Cecil Parkinson. |
| Whitelaw, Rt Hon William |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Lords amendment, as amended, agreed to.
§ Subsequent Lords amendment agreed to.
§
Lords Amendment: No. 183, in page 91, line 11, leave out "shall cease to have effect and" and insert:
for the words from "that" to the end there shall be substituted the words "at the beginning of the period of twenty-one days ending with the date of the application, no person (other than the applicant) was the owner of any of the land to which the application relates", (b) in subsection (1)(b) for the words "given the requisite notice of the application to "there shall be substituted the words "obtained consent for the making of the application from" and for the words "service of each such notice" there shall be substituted the words "each such consent", and (c)
§ Read a Second time.
§ Amendment made to the proposed Lords amendment: Leave out head (b).—[Mr. John Silkin.]
§ Lords amendment, as amended, agreed to.
§ Remaining Lords amendments agreed to.
§ Committee appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to certain of their amendments to the Bill, Mr. John Silkin, Mr. Gordon Oakes, Mr. Donald Coleman, Mr. Timothy Raison, and Mr. Hugh Rossi; Three to be the quorum.—[Mr. John Silkin.]
§ To withdraw immediately.
§ Reasons for disagreeing to certain of the Lords amendments reported, and agreed to; to be communicated to the Lords.