HC Deb 04 November 1975 vol 899 cc201-3
1. Mr. Hal Miller

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services, what was the total amount received by the National Health Service in the most recent 12- month period for which figures are avail able in respect of fees for pay beds.

11. Mr. Gow

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is her latest estimate of the total sum which will be paid to the National Health Service during the current year in respect of fees for pay beds in NHS hospitals.

The Secretary of State for Social Services (Mrs. Barbara Castle)

Income from pay bed charges in England in 1973–74 was £14.3 million. On the basis of a similar use of pay beds, the estimate for 1975–76 is £26 million.

Mr. Hal Miller

Will the right hon. Lady confirm that this contribution to the health service is on top of taxes paid by those using the beds and that they have a right to use National Health Service hospitals? May I remind her that she has still not yet indicated how this revenue is to be replaced? Does she agree that it is not right for her to seek to offset other charges, as has been her habit in the past?

Mrs. Castle

I have told the House previously that funds will be made available so that the revenue allocation to health authorities will not be affected as a consequence of the phasing out of pay beds. Of course, we all contribute to the National Health Service and we all have access to it. We are only prohibiting access to the service by the payment of a fee.

Dr. M. S. Miller

Can my right hon. Friend give some estimate of the contribution made by NHS workers, including doctors, nurses, medical ancillaries and laboratory technicians, to pay beds? Can she confirm that these contributions are not included in the calculations?

Mrs. Castle

My hon. Friend is quite right. No one other than the consultant servicing a pay bed gets any additional remuneration for it. The phasing out of pay beds will mean that manpower resources at present used on these beds will be available for NHS patients.

Mr. Gow

At a time when the health service is desperately short of resources, does the right hon. Lady think she is right to deprive it of £26 million revenue from pay beds? Will she reconsider her decision and bear in mind that many users of the National Health Service would readily pay a charge if they thought the service would be improved?

Mrs. Castle

I think I am right, for the simple reason that I believe we are getting a very good bargain. As I told the House in a recent debate, the phasing out of pay beds will mean the equivalent of between 2,500 and 3,000 more beds being made available for National Health Service use. The capital cost of providing these beds afresh today would be between £60 million and £70 million.

Dr. Vaughan

Will the right hon. Lady tell us how many pay beds she has already phased out? Her recent figure suggested that about 1,000 beds had been phased out in recent months. Can she confirm that?

Mrs. Castle

No doubt the hon. Member is referring to the under-occupancy exercise carried out by one of my predecessors, Mr. Kenneth Robinson. We have reviewed that, because these private beds are very under-occupied. In many cases the occupancy rate is as low as 50 per cent. I announced to the House that I was carrying out another exercise to reduce authorisations in cases where the occupancy rate was so low as not to justify the continuance of private beds. I cannot give the hon. Member any figures at the moment, but if he tables a Question or writes to me, I shall let him have the information.