British Steel Corporation

HC Deb 19 May 1975 vol 892 cc998-1002

16. Mr. Michael Marshall

asked the Secretary of State for Industry when he next expects to meet the Chairman of the British Steel Corporation.

23. Mr. Teddy Taylor

asked the Secretary of State for Industry when he next plans to meet the Chairman of the British Steel Corporation.

Mr. Benn

I met the chairman on 28th April and am still awaiting a reply to my request dated 6th May for a meeting with the Board of BSC and the unions.

Mr. Marshall

Is it not high time that the Secretary of State stopped using the Chairman of the British Steel Corporation as a whipping boy and turned the Government's attention to the vital question of deciding what is to be the investment programme of the corporation, particularly as it concerns Scotland and Wales? Does not the right hon. Gentleman accept that the recent saga bodes ill for the future of the aerospace and shipbuilding industries?

Mr. Benn

I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman has said. When the statements printed in the papers were brought to my attention and anxiety was expressed by the unions, I invited Sir Monty Finniston to come to see me. At the meeting I asked him to consider carefully whether the statements were correct or whether he had been misreported. I put some important matters of public policy to him in a letter. I had a response to the letter, in which he confirmed the truth of the Press reports and gave comments on the matters which I had raised with him. I asked the unions to look at these same problems and suggested a tripartite meeting after he had met the unions. I believe that that was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I believe that the board of any nationalised industry must recognise that it has to have a good working relationship with its own workers, that matters concerning jobs should be discussed with the unions and that the Government are bound inevitably to be concerned, even if only because of the investment implications.

Mr. Taylor

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the concern of ours in Scotland is because most of the closure proposals are concentrated in areas of already high unemployment? Can he say whether he and the Government support the proposals which have been put forward by the board for work-sharing as opposed to plant-sharing if this appears to be the best way of holding the labour force together in present difficult times?

On a general point, can the Secretary of State say why we are importing so much steel into Britain today at the same time as we are closing so many plants because of a lack of demand?

Mr. Benn

On the first point, the hon. Gentleman is quite right: there is great anxiety in Scotland, though the anxiety is not confined to that area.

The hon. Gentleman asks me to comment on work-sharing or other arrangements. I think that it would be wrong for me to seek to engage in speculation about matters which are to be discussed between the British Steel Corporation and the unions.

On the question of the importing of steel, this is exactly the point I am making. In 1971–72, when there was a downturn of trade, the British Steel Corporation closed so much plant that when the upturn came we had to meet it by imports. It is not so very stupid for a Government to look long term at an industry and not to look at it simply on a month-by-month basis of demand. I have these three points in mind. My main concern is that these difficult matters should be discussed on a tripartite basis.

Mrs. Bain

Does not the Secretary of State agree that the limitations on the size of any corporation within the European Coal and Steel Community rule out any large-scale expansion of the Scottish Steel industry unless there is a Scottish steel corporation as a completely separate body? Does he not accept that the opposition to the establishment of such an organisation arises from the fact that the Scottish steel industry would prove to be a very formidable competitor of the English steel industry? Will he comment on the fact that an order for 20,000 tons of steel which could have been made at Cambuslang has been transferred to Scunthorpe?

Mr. Speaker

Order. We have passed 3.10 p.m. I hope that the rest of this Question will be taken quite quickly.

Mr. Benn

The hon. Lady's point about a separate corporation for Scotland is well known, but it has not met with support among steel workers.

Mrs. Bain

Yes, it has.

Mr. Benn

The hon. Lady must allow me to give my interpretation. My own belief is that the main strength of those who work in the steel industry lies in their working together within the unions concerned and that it would weaken rather than strengthen this if they were to be divided. I am with the hon. Lady 100 per cent. as regards the question of management devolution further from the centre to the point to where the steel is made.

Mr. Flannery

Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that there is very deep feeling throughout all the steel workers regarding possible lay-offs and that, for instance, at a meeting last night of no fewer than 2,500 people in Sheffield this feeling was being voiced all round the hall in personal conversations? Does he agree with me that at this moment a lobby of Parliament is about to take place and there is to be a demonstration here by people who are deeply concerned about the chairmanship of the British Steel Corporation, who are worrying themselves to death about the lay-offs that are about to come and who therefore want to know exactly what the position is?

Mr. Benn

I can confirm what my hon. Friend said about Sheffield because I was at the meeting to which he referred. There is a great deal of anxiety about redundancy. I make no apology to the House for being as concerned as the steel workers about their jobs. I think that is quite right. I am taking the opportunity this afternoon of meeting the people who have come to London to voice their anxieties. My belief is that this matter must be discussed between the corporation and the unions and that it must then move quickly to a proper tripartite examination of the matter between the unions, the corporation and the Government.

Mr. Tom King

The Secretary of State referred to the importance of good relations between management and all those who work in the steel industry. Does he feel that at this very delicate time between management and unions, his addressing public meetings of people coming to London will do anything to help the situation? Finally, in view of the comments of the Secretary of State for Employment, will he confirm that there is still collective Cabinet responsibility for the steel industry?

Mr. Benn

The day that Ministers are afraid of meeting their own constituents, Parliament will perish and die. The hon. Gentleman has no business to say to a Member or a Minister that he should not meet people who have come to meet their representatives to express their anxieties. There is just as much anxiety among management in the steel plants throughout the country as there is among the people who are working as skilled and unskilled workers.