Security (Hansard, 15 May 1975)

§ 1. Mr. Biggs-Davison
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement on terrorism and security.

§ 2. Mr. Beith
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement about the security situation in Northern Ireland.

§ The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Merlyn Rees)
The security situation in recent weeks has seen a continuation of inter-sectarian and inter-factional violence, mainly in Belfast and parts of County Tyrone. The police are achieving considerable success overall but co-operation from the community as a whole still leaves much to be desired.
628 In my statement to the House on 11th February, I said that the Government were seeking a lasting peace and that a genuine and sustained cessation of violence would create a new situation. If that took place, there would be a progressive reduction in the present commitment of the Army and the rate of releases of detainees would be speeded up with a view to releasing all detainees. As I have also always made clear, anyone involved in acts of violence will be prosecuted in the courts. That remains the position. Whether the cessation of violence is genuine and sustained depends not upon what the Provisional IRA says but upon what it does, and the response of the security forces is, and must be, relates to the situation at the time.
The murder of a member of the RUC in Londonderry, for which the Provisional IRA has accepted responsibility, can have no conceivable justification by the previous arrest and charging of a man, and it has been condemned by all sections of the community. The police are doing everything possible to track down those responsible for this despicable murder. Its effect can only be to slow down progress towards that peace and security that everyone desires.

§ Mr. Biggs-Davison
Although I welcome, as did the Secretary of State, the RUC successes against sectarian and other criminals, may I ask him whether it is not the case that IRA operations and outrages have continued in, for example, County Armagh despite the so-called cease-fire? Does not that make it blatant hypocrisy for the IRA to excuse the callous murder of Constable Gray, to which he has referred, by alleged breaches of a non-existent agreement on our side? May I ask the Secretary of State to reaffirm that there can be no question of withdrawing from our fellow subjects in Ulster the protection of Her Majesty's Forces?

§ Mr. Rees
I must make one thing clear because it matters to be right on security matters. In the past three months the amount of IRA violence has been negligible. The amount of violence in Northern Ireland has been by the IRSP and the OIRA and it has been sectarian murders and the inter-factional disputes largely in the Belfast area. That is not to say that I am satisfied that there is a 629 genuine cessation of violence, but I am extremely concerned about the gangsterdom and the shootings which happen on a large scale even when the IRA's activities are on a very low scale.

§ Mr. Beith
I thank the Secretary of State for his forthright statement and I strongly support what he said. Does he agree that those responsible for the cowardly murder of Constable Gray placed at risk the fragile peace on which people in Northern Ireland depend for going about their ordinary lives? Does he also agree that those who hold power in the Convention must bear in mind that it lies with them to secure a future of peace and stability in Northern Ireland by making it quite clear to all sections of the community that they will have a part to play in the future Government of Northern Ireland?

§ Mr. Rees
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his remarks. Given the system that we have in Northern Ireland, which I reported to the House, I shall tell the hon. Gentleman what happened in terms of knowing who did what. The Provisionals complained, through the incident centre, of the arrest of a man. They were informed that he was helping the police with their inquiries and that he was to be charged. It was as the result of that that Constable Gray was shot. The Provisionals were contacted through the incident centre to ask who was responsible for this and we found, in that way, that they were responsible. It did not need a Press statement.

Mr. Wm. Ross
Although the right hon. Gentleman has said that the IRA was contacted through the incident centre and that it was responsible for this murder, what attempt was made to get other information out of the incident centre about the identity of the person concerned? Further with regard to the murder of Constable Gray, is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that since the beginning of this year some 47 shots have been fired at security forces in the Londonderry area and that there have been bombings and many other incidents which indicate that the IRA is still very active? Is not that a very good reason for stopping the releases?

§ Mr. Rees
There was no way, through the reporting centre, of finding out who had committed the crime. The police 630 are well aware of the situation, as the hon. Gentleman will know. He is right, of course, about shots and so on. However, I must make the point absolutely clear that in the last three months what has been concerning the security forces who work under me is the inter-factional shootings, killings and bombings which are taking place in Belfast, the IRSP and the OIRA, and the sectarian murders, which are straight sectarian murders. I shall not say aught else about the other activities which go on—activities of a low nature—but it is important that we get clear the fact that in Northern Ireland the security forces are dealing with not merely the Provisional IRA.

§ Mr. Stallard
Does my right hon. Friend accept that the only real permanent solution to some of these tragic events in Northern Ireland is the establishment of an acceptable police force? What progress, if any, has been made in discussions with both communities as to the establishment of such a police force?

§ Mr. Rees
Historically my hon. Friend is right. There are real and deep problems about the acceptance of the police force by the minority community. However, whether it is complaints against the police—the Gardiner Report praised the procedures there—or whether it is tracking down killers or murderers, whatever their so-called faith, the RUC has a very proud record. But I must admit that this is the basic problem we face. I should like to think that in my time in Northern Ireland the basic thing that had happened was that genuine policing through the courts was proved to be the way to proceed. It is only through the police force that we shall do that. I give my praise to the police force because I have learned to respect what it does in Northern Ireland.

§ Mr. Powell
In view of the renewed allegation made yesterday that Her Majesty's Government are in breach of commitments honourably entered into, and in view of the possible implication of what the Secretary of State has just said about the incident centres, how will the right hon. Gentleman protect himself from being blackmailed by the IRA, as his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (Mr. Whitelaw), was blackmailed, unless he is prepared to bring this whole matter of 631 the cease-fire and the incident centres into proper debate in this House or one of its Committees?

§ Mr. Rees
Regarding the matter of debate, this should be on the Floor of the House, because that is where matters of security should be dealt with. It is not for me to comment on occurrences under the previous administration. I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for raising the matter. I rest completely on what I have said to the House. My responsibility is to the House of Commons and to no one else. What I have said clearly and, I hope, concisely in recent weeks is that if there is a genuine, sustained cessation of violence there will then be a progressive reduction in Army numbers. I have said that if it is a permanent end to violence, there could be an end of detention. I have said that screening, photographing and identity checks could be brought to an end, that movement would be easier, that I would not sign interim custody orders and that incident centres have been set up to monitor events. But if people went on acquiring explosives and arms and preparing for violence. I could not regard that as the cessation of violence. I have told the House that sectarian murders and protection rackets must be ended.
I rest completely on that. I can in no way be blackmailed. I have spoken to the House of Commons, to which I am responsible, and I shall continue to do that.