HC Deb 15 May 1975 vol 892 cc633-5
4. Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what steps he is taking designed to reduce sectarian killings in the Province.

The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr. Roland Moyle)

It is difficult to identify among the 1,200 persons killed in Northern Ireland since the beginning of 1970 those cases which are sectarian in nature. Every effort is being made by the police to bring to justice those responsible for murders, whatever the motives were, and in response to the recent wave of killings more policemen have been deployed on the ground, the CID has been strengthened and patrols have been substantially increased in areas of high risk. Since 1st January, 47 persons have been charged with murder in connection with 20 murders, 48 have been charged with attempted murder and 126 travelling gunmen have been arrested and charged. In all, 447 people have been charged with terrorist-type offences up to 12th May. But the police are heavily dependent upon the co-operation of the people of Northern Ireland.

Mr. McNair-Wilson

The Minister's last words seemed to me to lead to my question. Surely, if the police are dependent upon the community—this question has already been asked in the House, and the answer to an earlier Question was a fair one—how will the police get the cooperation of the community? What attempt is the RUC making to bring the community into some sort of community police force which would really be so local that the areas controlled by the gangs to which the Secretary of State has referred would no longer be controlled by those gangs when the incident centres would refer to those areas? For instance, is the confidential telephone still doing the job that it should do? Only this week the Lord Mayor of Belfast said that the RUC was not going to all the places he would like it to go to. How could he make that statement when the Secretary of State and the Minister now say that the police are stepping up patrols? Are there enough police? If there are not enough, how shall we get them?

Mr. Moyle

Recruitment to the RUC has been going rather well since my right hon. Friend's statement last September, as it has been with the RUC Reserve, in which there has been a substantial increase in numbers. There is a scheme for linked police centres of a local nature which can be manned by the reserve, and this is a basis for a local police force. The RUC is adopting every possible method for securing its acceptance in some areas where there has not been the obvious and rigorous level of policing that is sometimes thought to be required. However, it would be idle to pretend that, in spite of the efforts being made, a quick solution will be achieved for this problem, for the reasons to which my right hon. Friend has already alluded this afternoon.

Mr. Kilfedder

On the point of acceptability of the police, what was unacceptable about the activities of Police Constable Paul Gray who was foully murdered last week? Does not the Minister agree that if the SDLP gave its support to the RUC there would be a reduction of violence in Northern Ireland which would prepare the way for perhaps a proper settlement and form of government?

Mr. Moyle

The death of Police Constable Gray was an event we all very much regret. As for the policing of areas and the acceptability of the RUC, it must be borne in mind that the constabulary now is to a very large extent a new force. It has a non-political police authority. It has a member of the minority community at its head. Someone from the Metropolitan Police is the deputy, and in addition at least half the RUC are new to the force within the last five years. At a patrolling level, therefore, it is very much a new police force compared with what it used to be. Everybody should consider whether in these circumstances the RUC is something which should be accepted everywhere.

Mr. Neave

Does the Minister agree that 50 of the people assassinated since December 23rd died from sectarian murders? Did he hear his right hon. Friend say that he would have to be satisfied that there was a genuine cessation of violence in order to follow his release policy? That is not true, is it?

Mr. Moyle

There is no obvious link between the types of killings that the hon. Gentleman has been talking about and the activities of the Provisional IRA.