HC Deb 18 June 1975 vol 893 cc1381-3
11. Mr. Teddy Taylor

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had with local authorities about the reductions he has called for in their educational and social work capital expenditure programmes.

13. Mr. Gray

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had with local authorities regarding proposed reductions in expenditure on roads.

Mr. William Ross

Following the Budget Statement of 15th April I had a preliminary discussion with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on 25th April about the implications of the statement for the capital and current expenditure of local authorities. The issues involved have since been discussed by the official working party on local government finance and my right hon. Friend the Minister of State is having a further meeting with the convention on Friday of this week.

Mr. Taylor

Will the Secretary of State say how much of the £45 million of cuts which he announced on 28th April for capital spending in 1976–77 applied to education and social work, and does he agree that these reductions do not help local authorities in any way to overcome their revenue spending problems which are causing the most alarming rate rises which will cause very real hardship in Scotland? Since he has announced his rate support grant and reallocation scheme for council budgeting, will he say whether it is his intention to do anything more about it, or whether he intends not to seek an interim relief plan for ratepayers who are facing alarming increases?

Mr. Ross

I think that the last point was covered when we discussed the rate support grant. I gave details about the amounts of money fed in to deal with the situation arising in the first year of local government financing. The result of that was that the highest rate of grant ever given was awarded to the Scottish local authorities, and it amounted to 75 per cent. of the local reckonable expenditures being paid for by central Government.

I am sorry that I cannot give the hon. Member a detailed line-up of the actual cost. We are discussing this with the local authorities, who showed considerable understanding of the position. I hope we shall experience that understanding in the House as well. I hear many Conservative speeches calling for cuts in local government expenditure, yet when we approach the subject in a reasonable fashion we tend to get howls of protest in respect of individual cuts. The present situation demands a realistic approach no' only to Government expenditure but to local government expenditure as well.

Mr. Gray

Does the Secretary of State accept, as I do, the statement by the Minister earlier that there will not be any cuts in roads in oil-affected areas? That was the information I also received in a Written Answer. Will the right hon. Gentleman make certain that the oil-affected areas will also receive special consideration in respect of other cuts in the expenditure, particularly on schools and housing?

Mr. Ross

There are no cuts in housing, so the hon. Gentleman can rest easy on that one. There is no cut in relation to basic needs for schools, either.

Mr. Doig

Over and above the cuts made in the social work programme by the Government, the Tayside Regional Council has made substantial further cuts. Is he aware that this has deprived the region of necessary social work expenditure?

Mr. Ross

I think that my hon. Friend means that certain allocations have been made to the council but that it has not taken up its fill allocation. That is matter within its own discretion.

Mr. Grimond

Will the Secretary of State confirm that I have suggested to him certain cuts that could be made in local government expenditure? Will he assure us that the Government's policy is that cuts in unproductive expenditure, such as office buildings for public authorities, are justified? Will he give us an assurance that roads in Sullom Voe and the oil-related area in Shetland will be adequate?

Mr. Ross

The question of roads in Sullom Voe and the oil-related areas of Shetland has already been attended to. I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for taking the matter seriously enough to make detailed suggestions on the new area health board.

Miss Harvie Anderson

The right hon. Gentleman said that there were only limited cuts in housing. Does he not realise that where housing is to be provided on any significant scale, new schools are also needed? That is a hold-up in certain areas that is becoming increasingly serious.

Mr. Ross

I take note of that point. We have to appreciate that we cannot make decisions of that kind without facing the consequences of stringency. We are looking at all these matters as carefully as possible to ensure that there is no consequential hold-up in relation to other matters which we consider to be of basic importance.

Mr. Thompson

When considering cuts in road expenditure, will the Secretary of State look with a kindly eye on the representations he has received from the Dumfries and Galloway Regional Council with respect to turning the A75 into a dual carriageway? Will he confirm that that road, in effect, is an international highway running from Italy to Ireland? I understand that it is an excellent highway until it reaches Gretna. Will the right hon. Gentleman do something about it?

Mr. Ross

I had better have a look at this new highway first. I was in the hon. Gentleman's area fairly recently and I noticed that the roads were fairly good.

Mr. Munro

In view of the thoroughly unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.