HC Deb 21 July 1975 vol 896 cc20-2
9. Mr. Wakeham

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection what steps are taken under her responsibility to protect the consumer in relation to services and products provided by the nationalised industries.

The Minister of State, Department of Prices and Consumer Protection (Mr. Alan Williams)

We keep in close touch with the Departments responsible for the nationalised industries on all matters affecting consumers. Members of the nationalised industry consumer councils are now appointed by my Department. We have asked the National Consumer Council to review the present arrangements for consumer representation in the nationalised industries and will consider any recommendations which the council may make for strengthening the protection of the consumer.

Mr. Wakeham

May I draw the Minister's attention to Section 79 of the Fair Trading Act 1973 and ask whether his right hon. Friend has referred any of the labour practices in the nationalised industries to the Monopolies Commission and, perhaps more important, in view of the vast increases in nationalised industry prices that are in the pipeline, whether she has any plans to refer them to the Monopolies Commission in future?

Mr. Alan Williams

No, Sir.

Mr. Cryer

Does my hon. Friend agree that one way of bolstering up the consumer councils is to examine the possibility of holding direct elections to the boards? Does he also agree that recently the consumer councils have given valuable critical advice about the proposed gas and electricity increases, which they oppose? Will my hon. Friend tell the House what he proposes to do about these attitudes?

Mr. Alan Williams

I look forward to receiving the formal reports which are due from the Post Office and the gas industry consultative councils. We shall discuss those reports with the relevant Departments.

On direct elections, it is an interesting prospect, but I am not sure that the public want more elected bodies. There is a danger of a proliferation of elections if we are not careful, but certainly it is a possibility worth considering. I shall urge my hon. Friend to draw this to the attention of Michael Young, in the National Consumer Council, so that it can be taken into account when its report is prepared.

Mr. Giles Shaw

Does the Minister agree that there is little evidence that the existence of these councils hitherto has actually achieved reductions in costs to the consumer? In view of the proposals for massive increases in postal charges, what terms of reference does the Minister expect the Post Office Users National Council to have in order to try, at long last, to achieve some reduction on behalf of the consumer?

Mr. Alan Williams

As the hon. Gentleman is so disillusioned about the effectiveness of these councils, no doubt he will give wholehearted support to our decision to refer them for consideration. On the Post Office, as I indicated to my hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Mr. Cryer), we are waiting for the report so that we can have discussions with the relevant Department.

Mr. George Cunningham

Does the Minister realise that on the gas consultative councils, at regional level, there are too many local authority representatives, and that these days they are far too busy on local authority matters to be able to give enough time and energy to the task of looking after the gas boards?

Mr. Alan Williams

I do not dissent from my hon. Friend's point of view. However, he must bear in mind that we are somewhat inhibited about the ratios of local authority representatives by the requirements of the statutes, which in some cases specify the ratio of councillors who have to be put on to the committees. This is one of the matters that we hope will be looked at by the consultative councils, with a positive result for the consumer.

Mrs. Sally Oppenheim

Is the Minister aware that the consumers of nationalised industries' goods and services are among the most dissatisfied consumers in the country? Is he also aware that we do not want subsidies increased, but that we want him to investigate those instances of extravagance, inefficiency, overmanning and overpayment in the nationalised industries, which are contributory factors?

Mr. Alan Williams

The hon. Lady has said that she does not want subsidies and that the consumers are dissatisfied. I do not dissent from that point of view. However, I ask her to bear in mind that one of the reasons is that the nationalised industries have had to face an abnormal rate of increase to get rid of subsidies that her Government imposed.