Direct Grant Schools (Hansard, 15 July 1975)

§ 2. Miss Fookes
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether any plans have been made to ensure that when direct grant schools go independent in 1976, parents of pupils at present at such schools will not have to pay more in fees than they would have done if these schools had maintained their present status.

§ The Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science (Miss Joan Lestor)
Yes. This is clear from the Department's letter of 1st May.

§ Miss Fookes
Does the Minister accept that it is not very clear to me? Will she please elucidate?

§ Miss Lestor
I do not know whether the hon. Lady has had a copy of the letter. If she has, she will have found that it made the situation perfectly clear. We have done our best to explain carefully that in the direct grant schools which have elected to go independent the pupils for whom fees are being paid will not have to pay more than they would have paid had they remained at the direct grant schools. This is carefully spelt cut in the letter. I will send the hon. Member a copy with an explanation if the matter is still unclear to her.

§ Dr. Edmund Marshall
Does my hon. Friend agree that the ending of direct grant schools is likely to increase rather than decrease the inequalities in, educational opportunity unless and until all independent schools are brought within the local authority system?

§ Miss Lestor
When we said that we were going to deal with the direct grant schools, we said that we would give them a choice to go independent or come into the maintained sector. I agree that if we are to get rid of selection as such we shall not eliminate inequality in education while the independent sector remains.

§ 7. Sir G. Sinclair
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he will take to ensure that the grants. 1245 and capitation fees payable to direct grant schools during the phasing-out period retain their real value in the face of inflation.

§ Miss Joan Lestor
None.

§ Sir G. Sinclair
Will not the hon. Lady and her right hon. Friend take another look at this matter? Do they not realise what has taken place since their predecessors pegged these rates in 1972? Even from April 1973 to May 1975 the cost of living increased by 45.9 per cent. That has completely eroded the grants that are given to these schools. Does the hon. Lady realise that this can only be to the disadvantage of the schools, the staff and the young people involved?

§ Mess Lestor
I think the hon. Gentleman is aware that we have taken into account certain areas where grants are payable. As he knows, pupils already in the schools—in particular in the schools which have elected to go independent—will receive grants and will be eligible for fee remission in the way that I have explained previously. As regards the other schools and whatever the truth may be about inflation, given that the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues are constantly talking about a cut-back in public expenditure I would have thought that this was one area in which they would have welcomed a cut-back.

§ Mr. Tomlinson
Does my hon. Friend accept that the priority should be to maintain the real value of the capitation allowance within the State system, particularly in view of the fact that the present Government have made sure in real and cash terms that there is a higher rate support grant for that purpose than ever before?

§ Miss Lestor
That is obviously right. When talking about a distribution of money that is available for education, one would have hoped to have heard as much talk and as much urging on behalf of the State sector as one hears about grants and increased fees for the direct grant schools.

§ Mr. Mates
Will the hon. Lady now answer what she totally failed to answer in response to an earlier question from my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Drake (Miss Fookes)— namely, that in the short term her plans for direct grant schools will dis- 1246 criminate against the children of poorer parents and in favour of the children of better-off parents? Is this not totally against her stated policy?

§ Miss Lestor
I fail to see that the policy of telling the direct grant schools either to go independent or to go into the State sector discriminates against those who are poorest. They have the whole of the State sector, a sector which offers an excellent education service. If parents are concerned about the standard of education within that sector, the best thing they can do is to get their children into it and improve it.

§ Mrs. Dunwoody
Will my hon. Friend take positive steps of discrimination to protect the interests of children now being taught in substandard conditions in secondary modern schools, and make every effort she can to move rapidly towards a comprehensive system so that children who are now subject to selection can have a chance of real education which they do not have at present?

§ Miss Lestor
My hon. Friend knows that I totally agree with her in that respect.

§ 11. Mr. Michael Latham
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many representations he received during the month of June 1975 from parents and other interested persons protesting against Government policy towards direct grant schools; and what replies he sent.

§ Miss Joan Lestor
About 2,000. The replies have explained that the Government's decision follows from their commitment to end selection for secondary education.

§ Mr. Latham
Will the hon. Lady reconsider the answer she gave earlier to the hon. Member for Goole (Dr. Marshall) in which she suggested that because of the interests of social engineering she will consider banning independent education as well as direct grant schools?

§ Miss Lestor
I should not like to reconsider my answer—namely, that while there is an independent sector of education the commitment to selection is only a half-truth. This is why we are getting rid of direct grant schools in the way in which they now stand.

§ Mr. Rose
Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that if there were an equally articulate and powerful lobby in regard to education in general rather than on direct grant schools in particular, we might see an increase in the general standard of education, and that as long as the more privileged parents opt to take their children out of the State sector there will be deprivation in education?

§ Miss Lestor
I agree with most of my hon. Friend's remarks. I wish to add that it is to be expected that parents whose financial interests will be affected by the Government's decision on direct grant schools will protest about the matter.