VARIATION OF SCHEDULES (Hansard, 11 July 1975)

§ Mr. Hardy
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this it may be convenient to take the following Lords Amendments: No. 11, in page 2, line 34, leave out "and" and insert "or", No. 12, in page 2, line 34, leave out from from "order" to "add" in line 36, No. 13, in page 2, line 38, leave out from first "Act" to end of line 39, No. 14, in page 2, line 39, at end insert— (2) An order made under subsection (1) of this section may apply—

(a) to the whole or to particular provisions of this Act;

(b) generally or to a particular area;

(c) to wild creatures or plants in a particular category; or

(d) at all times or at particular times of the year;
and the order may make different provision for different circumstances. 941 No. 27, in page 5, line 23, leave out "any area specified" and insert: a particular area or in relation to a particular category and either at all times or at particular times of the year".

§ Mr. Hardy
Amendment No. 10, which is very appropriately taken with the other amendments, is perhaps the most important of those made in the House of Lords.
The Bill already allows the Secretary of State for the Environment to add all members of a species of wild creature or of wild plant to Schedule 1 or to Schedule 2 by order. He is also empowered to confer protection in relation to particular provisions of the Act or in particular areas only. The effect of Amendment No. 14, for example, would be to allow him in suitable cases, in addition to the powers he already possesses under the Bill as it passed through this House, to confer protection on particular categories of creature or of plant, or at particular times of the year.
Amendments Nos. 11 and 12 make consequential alterations to this increase in the capacity of the Secretary of State to act with flexibility.
Amendment No. 27 is appropriately linked with these amendments, since it requires the Nature Conservancy Council to offer appropriate advice, which one assumes will persuade the Secretary of State to seek the necessary powers by order.
These amendments would extend the facilities for partial protection and they would increase, as I have said, the flexibility of the Bill for dealing with future eventualities. Although these facilities may never be required—one hopes they never will be—the powers are permissive, and the Nature Conservancy Council need only recommend their use when this would be clearly advantageous.
The House will appreciate that the needs of our natural heritage vary according to regions and perhaps according to seasons. If we are to provide an adequate protection for the rarer members of the range of creatures or of plants in these islands, we need to allow the very responsible and very successful Nature Conservancy Council to be able to pass its advice to the Secretary of State with an adequate degree of flexibility to serve 942 regional needs, in order that the whole of this country shall have an adequate opportunity of protection.
These matters were discussed, though not at great length, during the passage of the Bill through this House. They were not included during the proceedings here because it was felt, and quite rightly, that the Nature Conservancy Council and the Department of the Environment should have an adequate opportunity to look at the nature of the amendments and their possible effect.
I am delighted that, as a result of the detailed consideration which has been given during the months which have elapsed since the Bill was previously before this House, we now have an amendment which, I believe, adds a great deal of potential value to the Bill. I am very pleased indeed that we now have before us Amendment No. 10 and the amendments which are consequential upon it.

§ The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (Mr. Denis Howell)
I am glad to advise the House, on behalf of the Government that we entirely agree with the acceptance of the amendment as recommended by my hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Mr. Hardy). We also think that this is perhaps the most important amendment to come here from another place. We gave ourselves time in which to examine it, and particularly to obtain the advice of the Nature Conservancy Council.
The amendment adds a tremendous breadth to the Bill in terms of flexibility, giving my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State powers to act regionally, or to deal with timing, and to add species to either Schedule 1 or Schedule 2 at such times in the future as he feels to be necessary. I confirm that we hold in very high esteem the advice we receive from the Nature Conservancy Counciy. I am very glad to hear that my hon. Friend does, too.
I give an undertaking to the House that in exercising this flexibility we shall always consult the Nature Conservancy Council, and be happy to receive representations from any other interested parties before reaching decisions.
In addition to giving the Bill an added breadth and depth, which I welcome very much, I hope that the amendment will, 943 in the continuing situation which might develop, enable rare species of animals or plants to receive the protection which the House clearly wishes to give to those specific species which are listed in the schedules. I think that this flexibility will be welcomed by all true lovers of the countryside and all those who wish to protect rare species of plants and animals, and will prevent the need for Parliament itself to have to return to these questions from time to time, since the Government will be able, upon representation and advice from the Nature Conservancy Council, to ask my right hon. Friend to make the appropriate decisions by order. I think that this is a very sensible way to proceed, and I hope that it enhances the environment of the countryside in which we live.

§ Mr. Mather
I agree that this is a helpful amendment. We have already seen the need for flexibility in terms of the need to leave out some creatures and to add other creatures which were originally in the Bill as it was drafted. There are differences of opinion amongst experts, and conditions change fairly rapidly in any consideration of the protection or conservation of these wild creatures.