HC Deb 10 July 1975 vol 895 cc742-7
Mr. Neave (by Private Notice)

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement about the admitted resumption of violence by the Provisional IRA.

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Merlyn Rees)

A number of acts of violence have occurred this year in Northern Ireland, and for some of these the Provisional IRA has claimed involvement, such as the serious bombings in Belfast on 2nd and 8th April and the killing of Police Constable Gray in Londonderry on 10th May.

At about 4 p.m. yesterday after six men entered the offices in Crown Buildings, Strand Road. They held up staff and planted three devices which exploded some half an hour later. There were no casualties, but a fire was started which caused extensive damage to the building. Shortly afterwards, a statement was issued to the Press which purported to come from the Provisional IRA in Londonderry. This claimed that the attack was the work of the Provisionals and that it was in response to Army activities in the city to which objection was apparently taken.

The police are fully investigating the incident with a view to bringing those responsible before the courts. I must make it clear that the allegations used in the Provisionals' statement as an excuse for the attack contained nothing of substance and could not in any circumstances justify what had happened.

I have also made it clear in this House, on 14th January and on a number of subsequent occasions, that the level of activity of the security forces will be related to the level of violence. The nature of violence in Northern Ireland has changed in recent months, and much of it now occurs within or between factions, but the response of the security forces must depend upon the facts of the security situation.

Every effort will be made to bring to justice through the courts those responsible for crimes of violence. The House will know that between 1st January and 10th July 64 people have been charged with murder, 60 with attempted murder, 233 with firearms offences and 54 with other security offences. Up to 7th July 179 travelling gunmen have been arrested. The Government are concerned with the reality of the cease-fire and not with any stated intentions. Accordingly, my policy on detention remains that future releases will be related to the developing security situation.

Mr. Neave

In thanking the Secretary of State for that statement, may I ask if he will assure the House that the security forces are prepared for any new threat that may be arising in the present circumstances, and also that the Army will be ready to arrest the known terrorists, from whatever source, who are wanted on criminal charges? Will he, in view of what he says about the change in the nature of violence, agree that the Provisional IRA violence is being resumed, and that the three Londonderry bombs should now persuade him to think again about continuing his policy of release of terrorists from detention, about which we on the Conservative side have consistently expressed grave concern over the last few months?

Mr. Rees

The security forces are always ready. They have arrested people, or I should not have been able to give the figures I gave just now.

In regard to releases, I have to follow the law as it is. I cannot treat people in detention as prisoners of war who can be held until the end of the campaign. I am prepared to look at each individual case and to make a judgment about the possible return to terrorism in each individual case.

Mr. Powell

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that events of this kind underline the importance of the Government's giving no colour by their words or actions to any suggestion that there have been reciprocal understandings or undertakings between the Government and the Provisional IRA?

Mr. Rees

Yes, Sir, and I have made it abundantly clear. The only way that this gets around is by constant repetition. I am prepared to repeat that there is no agreement.

Mr. Fitt

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the majority of incidents which have taken place since January of this year have, in fact, been carried out by so-called Loyalist elements in Northern Ireland, and that the vast increase in assassinations, levelled particularly against the Roman Catholic community in Northern Ireland, has had nothing at all to do with whatever arrangements have been made between the British Government and the Provisional IRA, about which we all have considerable suspicion. Would he not agree that it is totally unfair to keep men in internment and detention without trial and to relate their detention to current acts of violence when they may be completely opposed to acts of violence on the part of the IRA?

Mr. Rees

There has been a large amount of violence, and a large part —not by any means all of it—has been committed by the Provisional IRA. My hon. Friend is right in thinking that the majority of shootings since the turn of the year have come from the Loyalist side. That is a fact.

With regard to the nature of the violence, I also tell the House that a disturbing feature on the Republican side arises with the growth of violence by the IRSP, which is a new development in recent months.

Concerning detention, I have to take into account the reason why men were originally locked up—largely by me—and it is a difficult judgment to make. But in regard to those whom I know and feel would organise violence and get involved in violence, I have a duty to the security forces and to the people of Northern Ireland to judge matters in the light of the general nature of the security situation.

Mr. Steen

Will the right hon. Gentleman impress upon the Home Secretary the need to call for a report, as a matter of urgency, into the alleged Irish political implications behind the gun battle fought on Merseyside in the early hours of this morning in which a detective sergeant was shot and critically injured?

Mr. Rees

I am sure that my right hon. Friend will note what the hon. Gentleman said.

Mr. Flannery

Will my right hon. Friend take it from me that, although in reply to a Question from me he said that I had the English disease and that I wanted short cuts to the solution of the Northern Ireland problem, it would be an under-estimation of the deep underlying political struggle going on there to attribute every event there to faction fighting? Does not my right hon. Friend agree that political solutions are the only answer and that this melancholy list of gaolings and arrests does not in the long run supply any answers to the problems of Northern Ireland?

Mr. Rees

All that I say to my hon. Friend is that there are no short cuts to the solution in Northern Ireland. That is absolutely certain. Secondly, it is important to look at the nature of the violence. The violence is not only from the Provisional IRA, bestial as is the killing of Police Constable Gray. There must be a political solution, of course, and if there were a political solution available, it would have to arise in Northern Ireland. In the months that I have been there, I have learned that the political solution goes hand in hand with dealing with gangsterism, murder and the like which are only remotely connected with politics, and only then because people call it politics. But it is not.

Mr. Beith

Will the Secretary of State confirm that it would be wrong to suggest that people interned without trial in Northern Ireland should be regarded as hostages? By the same token, will the right hon. Gentleman make it clear that the cease-fire confers no immunity from the proper conduct of the law by the security forces, whether that involves the IRA or anyone else? Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the most effective condemnation of this renewal of activity should be delivered by everyone in both communities?

Mr. Rees

There is no immunity, and the figures of arrests which I have given show that. But the hon. Gentleman is right. Condemnation by people in Northern Ireland is worth more than any condemnation that I or anyone else on this side of the water could make. It must emerge in Northern Ireland, and it is to the credit of right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the House who live and work in Northern Ireland that they have come out against violence. It is of great advantage when it comes from what is, in effect, their side of the fence. It is of very great value.

Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

Is the right hon. Gentleman now satisfied with the incident centres, and can he say whether they played any part in the bombs in Belfast, in the killing of Police Constable Gray or in the most recent bombs in Londonderry? If they did not, can he suggest why it is that the Provisional IRA continues with them if it is prepared to use gratuitous violence in this way?

Mr. Rees

I do not quite understand the hon. Gentleman. The incident centres could have played no part in the bombs. In terms of inquiries to find out who was responsible, they have played a valuable part.

Mr. Wm. Ross

Will the Secretary of State confirm that this is not the first attack carried out on bank buildings in Londonderry? I was assured alter the last attack that security had been tightened up. If that is so, how did the IRA penetrate the defences of this building? Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm, secondly, the harassment by troops about which people have complained was the arrest of two people for throwing stones in the Creggan and the searching of one farm. Does he understand that law-abidding citizens in Londonderry think that there is not nearly enough police activity in this area? Will he confirm, finally, in order to assure the House and my constituents, that there is no hold-back in investigations into the murder of Constable Gray because of fear of IRA retaliation, in view of arrests which might be made.

Mr. Rees

That last question was asked interrogatively, but I hope that it will not be taken as evidence of knowledge which the hon. Gentleman has. The killing of Police Constable Gray was dastardly. No one is holding back. It is a matter of getting evidence and finding out what is going on. That is true of every case in Northern Ireland, from whatever side it comes. Apparently the criticism, if that is the right word, was of harassment. Bombings have taken place in bank buildings before. The hon. Gentleman will know the number of people—not only police and army personnel—who are engaged in the protection of buildings. Sadly, it is all too easy to blow up buildings in Northern Ireland, as people who have visited the area know too well.

Several hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. We must move on. Mrs. Thatcher. Business Question.