HC Deb 08 July 1975 vol 895 cc321-3
12. Mr. Molloy

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if she will consider overhauling the grading arrangements of staff within the school health service.

Mr. Meacher

This is a matter in the first instance for the appropriate negotiating bodies.

Mr. Molloy

Is my hon. Friend aware, however, and does he not agree, that discrimination among members of the staff of the National Health Service who have identical qualifications must be wrong, and that the situation of nurses within the school nurse service is not merely anomalous but is wholly unjust? Ought he not to undertake a full investigation into this situation, which is not merely causing irritation and annoyance but could also prove deleterious to that aspect of the service?

Mr. Meacher

I recognise the truth of what my hon. Friend has said about the effect of the Halsbury decision. The problem has arisen simply because in simplify- ing the pay structure Halsbury placed the school nurse without the health visitor certificate along with others of the same qualification rather than upgrading her, as with the school nurse and others with the health certificate who had been placed at the higher level of nursing sister first grade. My hon. Friend is quite right that the gap has widened considerably as a result of this and this has led to a great deal of unrest. We recognise that. We are certainly considering further representations made to us on this point by the staff side. Without prejudice to the conclusions of that consideration, my right hon. Friend will be writing to the staff side shortly.

Mr. Steen

While the Minister is looking at the grading arrangements for school nurses, perhaps he would also take a look at the grading arrangements for tuberculosis nurses in chest clinics. Is he aware that discrimination is exactly the same there as it is in the school nurse service?

Mr. Meacher

Yes, I am aware that they are a group. There are five, I think, and that is the second one where probably there are grounds for further consideration. I appreciate that when most of them received their qualifications the health visitor certificate had not been introduced. It was introduced afterwards, in 1962. There are grounds for reconsideration of that matter.

Dr. Vaughan

Is the Minister aware that the Whitley machinery is not proving satisfactory for resolving this problem, and that many nurses with a great many years of experience and skill are now finding themselves not only reduced in their relative salaries but very much reduced in their status?

Mr. Meacher

The hon. Gentleman is wrong in suggesting that there are any nurses who, as a result of the Halsbury recommendations, will find themselves on a lower salary. We are talking about the widening of certain relativities in the grading structure which improves the situation for almost all those within it. Let me make it quite clear that Halsbury received full representations from both the management and the staff side and that when the committee's initial recommendation was made and the Whitley Council agreed to accept it, when the staff side made further representations the committee declined, in the supplement to the report, to accept the new representations.