§ Amendment made: No. 54, in page 9, line 12, leave out 'specified in' and insert 'which will vest by virtue of'.—[Mr. Varley.]
§ Amendment proposed, No. 55, in page 9, line 21, leave out from beginning to 'to' in line 29, and insert:
- '(a) any capital or assets which will vest by virtue of the order; and
- (b) any assets—
- (i) of a body corporate whose capital will so vest, or
- (ii) of any subsidiary of such a body corporate;
§ (3) A vesting order setting aside a transfer of capital or assets such as are mentioned in subsection (2)(a) above shall entitle the Secretary of State or the Board to recover the capital or assets transferred.
§ (3A) A vesting order setting aside a transfer of assets such as are mentioned in subsection
1366§ (2)(b) above shall entitle the body corporate or subsidiary to recover the assets transferred.
§ (3B) Any vesting order setting aside a transfer shall give the person entitled to recover the capital or assets a right, if he fails to recover them,'.—[Mr. Varley.]
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 222, Noes 15.
1367| Division No. 259] | AYES | [11.25 p.m. |
| Allaun, Frank | Flannery, Martin | Maynard, Miss Joan |
| Archer, Peter | Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | Mellish, Rt Hon Robert |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Mikardo, Ian |
| Ashton, Joe | Fowler, Gerald (The Wrekin) | Millan, Bruce |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston N) | Fraser, John (Lambeth, N'w'd) | Miller, Dr M. S. (E Kilbride) |
| Atkinson, Norman | Garrett, John (Norwich S) | Mitchell, R. C. (Soton, Itchen) |
| Bagier, Gordon A. T. | Garrett, W. E. (Wallsend) | Molloy, William |
| Bain, Mrs Margaret | George, Bruce | Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) |
| Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) | Gilbert, Dr John | Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) |
| Barnett, Rt Hon Joel (Heywood) | Golding, John | Mulley, Rt Hon Frederick |
| Bates, Alf | Gourlay, Harry | Murray, Rt Hon Ronald King |
| Bean, R. E. | Graham, Ted | Newens, Stanley |
| Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N) | Grant, George (Morpeth) | Noble, Mike |
| Bishop, E. S. | Grant, John (Islington C) | Oakes, Gordon |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Hamilton, James (Bothwell) | O'Malley, Rt Hon Brian |
| Booth, Albert | Hardy, Peter | Orme, Rt Hon Stanley |
| Boothroyd, Miss Betty | Harper, Joseph | Ovenden, John |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Arthur | Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) | Owen, Dr David |
| Boyden, James (Bish Auck) | Hart, Rt Hon Judith | Palmer, Arthur |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Hatton, Frank | Park, George |
| Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) | Hayman, Mrs Helene | Parker, John |
| Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W) | Heffer, Eric S. | Pavitt, Laurie |
| Buchan, Norman | Henderson, Douglas | Phipps, Dr Colin |
| Callaghan, Rt Hon J. (Cardiff SE) | Hooley, Frank | Prescott, John |
| Callaghan Jim (Middleton & P) | Howell, Denis (B'ham, Sm H) | Price, C. (Lewisham W) |
| Campbell, Ian | Hoyle, Doug (Nelson) | Price, William (Rugby) |
| Canavan, Dennis | Huckfield, Les | Reid, George |
| Carmichael, Neil | Hughes, Mark (Durham) | Richardson, Miss Jo |
| Carter-Jones, Lewis | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) |
| Clemitson, Ivor | Hughes, Roy (Newport) | Roberts, Gwllym (Cannock) |
| Cocks, Michael (Bristol S) | Hunter, Adam | Roderick, Caerwyn |
| Cohen, Stanley | Irvine, Rt Hon Sir A. (Edge Hill) | Rodgers, George (Chorley) |
| Coleman, Donald | Irving, Rt Hon S. (Dartford) | Rodgers, William (Stockton) |
| Conlan, Bernard | Jackson, Miss Margaret (Lincoln) | Rooker, J. W. |
| Cook, Robin F. (Edin C) | Jay, Rt Hon Douglas | Ross, Rt Hon W. (Kilmarnock) |
| Corbett, Robin | John, Brynmor | Rowlands, Ted |
| Cox, Thomas (Tooting) | Jones, Alec (Rhondda) | Ryman, John |
| Craigen, J. M. (Maryhlll) | Jones, Barry (East Flint) | Sandelson, Neville |
| Crawford, Douglas | Jones, Dan (Burnley) | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Crawshaw, Richard | Kaufman, Gerald | Selby, Harry |
| Crosland, Rt Hon Anthony | Kerr, Russell | Shaw, Arnold (llford South) |
| Cryer, Bob | Kilroy-Silk, Robert | Silkin, Rt Hon John (Deptford) |
| Cunningham, G. (Islington S) | Kinnock, Neil | Silkin, Rt Hon S. C. (Dulwich) |
| Cunningham, Dr J. (Whiteh) | Lambie, David | Sillars, James |
| Dalyell, Tarn | Lamborn, Harry | Silverman, Julius |
| Davidson, Arthur | Lamond, James | Skinner, Dennis |
| Davies, Bryan (Enfield N) | Leadbitter, Ted | Small, William |
| Davies, Denzil (Llanelli) | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | Smith, John (N Lanarkshire) |
| Davis, Clinton (Hackney C) | Lipton, Marcus | Spearing, Nigel |
| Deakins, Eric | Litterick, Tom | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Dean, Joseph (Leeds W) | Lomas, Kenneth | Stallard, A. W. |
| de Freitas, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Loyden, Eddie | Stewart, Donald (Western Isles) |
| Dempsey, James | Lyon, Alexander (York) | Stott, Roger |
| Doig, Peter | Lyons, Edward (Bradford W) | Strang, Gavin |
| Dormand, J. D. | McCartney, Hugh | Strauss, Rt Hon G. R. |
| Duffy, A. E. P. | MacCormick, lain | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton W) |
| Dunn, James A. | McElhone, Frank | Thomas, Mike (Newcastle E) |
| Dunnett, Jack | MacFarquhar, Roderick | Thomas, Ron (Bristol NW) |
| Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth | McGuire, Michael (Ince) | Thompson, George |
| Edelman, Maurice | Mackenzie, Gregor | Thorne, Stan (Preston South) |
| Edge, Geoff | McMillan, Tom (Glasgow C) | Tinn, James |
| Ellis, Tom (Wrexham) | McNamara, Kevin | Tomlinson, John |
| English, Michael | Madden, Max | Torney, Tom |
| Evans, loan (Aberdare) | Marks, Kenneth | Urwin, T. W. |
| Evans, John (Newton) | Marquand, David | Varley, Rt Hon Eric G. |
| Ewing, Harry (Stirling) | Marshall, Dr Edmund (Goole) | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne V) |
| Fernyhough, Rt Hon E. | Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) | Ward, Michael |
| Fitch, Alan (Wigan) | Mason, Rt Hon Roy | Watkinson, John |
| Watt, Hamish | Williams, Rt Hon Shirley (Hertford) | Wool, Robert |
| Weitzman, David | Williams, W. T. (Warrington) | Wrigglesworth, Ian |
| Welsh, Andrew | Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton) | Young, David (Bolton E) |
| White, Frank R. (Bury) | Wilson, Gordon (Dundee E) | |
| Whitlock, William | Wilson, William (Coventry SE) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES |
| Wigley, Dafydd | Wise, Mrs Audrey | Mr. John Ellis and |
| Williams, Alan (Swansea W) | Woodall, Alec | Mr. David Stoddart. |
| Williams, Alan Lee (Hornch'ch) | ||
| NOES | ||
| Brotherton, Michael | Lester, Jim (Beeston) | Wainwright, Richard (Colne V) |
| Freud, Clement | Pardoe, John | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Grimond, Rt Hon J. | Penhaligon, David | |
| Hooson, Emlyn | Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Howells, Geraint (Cardigan) | Steel, David (Roxburgh) | Mr. Cyril Smith and |
| Johnston, Russell (Inverness) | Thorpe, Rt Hon Jeremy (N Devon) | Mr. A. J. Beith. |
| Kilfedder, James |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Amendment made: No. 56, in page 9, line 33, leave out 'notified' and insert 'given notice to'.—[Mr. Varley.]
§
Amendment proposed, No. 57, in page 9, line 34, at end insert
'and the Secretary of State shall publish a copy of any such notice in the London Gazette, the Edinburgh Gazette and the Belfast Gazette as soon as practicable after he has given it'.—[Mr. Varley.]
§ Mr. SpeakerI would point out that under the terms of Standing Order No. 36 Mr. Speaker may,
if in his opinion the division is unnecessarily claimed, take the vote of the House, or committee, by calling upon the Members who support, and who challenge his decision, successively to rise in their places; and he shall thereupon, as he thinks fit, either declare the determination of the House or committee, or name tellers for a division.I hope we can get on.
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House proceeded to a Division, and Mr. SPEAKER stated that he thought the "Ayes" had it, and, on his decision being challenged, it appeared to him that the Division was unnecessarily claimed, and he accordingly called upon the Members who supported and who challenged his decision successively to rise in their, places; and he declared the "Ayes" had it, eight Members only who challenged his decision having stood up.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Amendment proposed, No. 58 in, page 9, line 35, leave out subsection (5).—(Mr. Varley.)
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House proceeded to a Division, and Mr. SPEAKER stated that he thought 1368 the "Ayes" had it, and, on his decision being challenged, it appeared to him that the Division was unnecessarily claimed, and he accordingly called upon the Members who supported and who challenged his decision successively to rise in their places; and he declared the "Ayes" had it, 13 Members only who challenged his decision having stood up.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Amendments proposed: No. 59, in page 9, line 41, leave out subsection (6).
§ No. 60, in page 10, line 23, in clause 13, leave out 'the extinguishment or transfer of the rights' and insert 'any extinguishment or transfer of rights'.
§ No. 61, in page 10, line 33, in Clause 13, leave out paragraph (c).—[Mr. Kaufman.]
§ Mr. Cyril SmithOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. If you are prepared to adopt this procedure we propose to challenge every amendment.
§ Mr. Jeremy Thorpe (Devon, North)Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Could you assist the House by giving a little further elucidation of your most recent ruling? I understand that you are relying upon Standing Order No. 36, which provides that if in your opinion a Division is unnecessarily claimed, you may disallow it. Are we to take it, Sir, that that is a qualitative or a quantitative criterion? While accepting the ruling which you have just given, may I ask you whether it is not a fact that if your discretion in the future is merely to be determined by numbers, it would be a criterion which would spell the doom of every minority in the House, including the official Opposition.
§ Mr. SpeakerOf course the right hon. Gentleman is right. I would never dream of making my decision on those grounds. What I have to decide is whether a Division is purposeless, and if we are to continue with claims for a Division, whether we are wasting time. Where there is an important debate to follow—on which I am not allowed to express my personal views—I cannot understand the tactics.
§ 11.45 p.m.
§ Mr. HoosonFurther to your ruling on that point of order, Mr. Speaker. If I heard you aright, you laid down as a test whether or not a Division was purposeless. With great respect, how can you judge, save on a quantitative basis? That is what you are purporting to do. With the greatest respect, it does not tie up with the answer you gave in response to the request of my right hon. Friend the Member for Devon, North (Mr. Thorpe), because the purposelessness of the vote as you defined it seems to be based on quantity and nothing else.
§ Mr. SpeakerOne of the troubles of my position is that I am invested with great discretions, which I must administer as best I can, I think seldom to the satisfaction of everybody. This is a case in which I am exercising my discretion. I feel that we must get on.
§ The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Robert Mellish)On a point of order. I should like to be in a very conciliatory mood. I understand the point of view of the Liberal Party. Individual Members have certain rights, and if they are in any way reduced I can understand their indignation. I understand that Liberal Members want to vote twice more, physically to show their point of view in the Division Lobbies. Speaking as Government Chief Whip, may I respectfully put to the Chair that it would save a great deal of ill-feeling if those two votes were allowed in the proper form, and then we could all end up on a happy note.
§ Mr. SpeakerI am delighted to have this interpretation of the Liberal position. May we now get on with Amendment No. 59?
§ Mr. Cyril SmithOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. If it will help you in giving a ruling, I can confirm that if you were 1370 able to accede to the Government Chief Whip's suggestion that would be acceptable to me and my colleagues.
§ Mr. SpeakerI am delighted to accept any accommodation of this sort.
§ Amendment made: No. 59, in page 9, line 41, leave out subsection (6).—[Mr. Kaufman.]