HC Deb 20 January 1975 vol 884 cc1008-11
15. Mr. Tim Renton

asked the Secretary of State for Energy to what extent the rundown in North Sea activities is affecting the Government's programme to bring oil and gas ashore.

20. Mr. Alexander Fletcher

asked the Secretary of State for Energy what are his latest estimates of North Sea oil production for the years 1975, 1976 and 1977, respectively.

Mr. Varley

Though there have been suggestions that some companies may not build up their North Sea activity to the levels originally envisaged, activity is in fact now at a higher level than ever before. I will be publishing revised figures in the annual Brown Book but my present expectation is that by 1980 oil production will be within the range of 100 million to 140 million tons, as indicated in the 1974 Brown Book.

Mr. Renton

I find the Secretary of State's answer very surprising. Is it not a fact that expected orders for production platforms are now something like 50 per cent. down on six months ago? For example, orders for non-essential equipment for the Claymore field have been delayed, and on the basis of the Government's present proposals only five or six fields in the North Sea may ever be developed.

Mr. Varley

It depends where one starts in looking at North Sea oil and North Sea exploration activity. An examination shows that the slippage which took place did so under the last Conservative Government. Mr. Tom Boardman, who was Minister for Industry at the time, announced in May 1973 that we were going to get 25 million tons of oil from the North Sea in 1975. Last March I told the House that that estimate was down. The hon. Member should know that there are now four sites in the United Kingdom for the construction of steel platforms and six for the construction of concrete designs. Three of these were announced only a few days ago by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland.

Mr. Lambie

How much Scottish oil will be refined in Scottish refineries? What steps is my right hon. Friend's Department taking to increase the refinery capacity in Scotland, to refine more Scottish oil?

Mr. Varley

There is enough refinery capacity for 150 million tons of oil a year. That is plenty at present, but I can tell my hon. Friend, who I know takes a great interest in these questions, that over a time refinery capacity will be built up in that country. However, it is too early to say by how much it will be increased.

Mr. Fletcher

The Minister did not answer my Question, which related specifically to the years 1975, 1976 and 1977. If he cannot forecast production for this year and the next two years with some confidence, is he not deluding himself, the House and the country by sticking to a target date of 1980 for self-sufficiency in oil?

Mr. Varley

No, Sir, I am not deluding myself. The companies are operating on the edges of technology. There has been some slippage during the winter and last autumn because of the severe weather conditions. All these matters—technical problems and labour troubles—add up to difficulties, but the 1980 perspective holds good.

Mr. Patrick Jenkin

Is not my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, North (Mr. Fletcher) absolutely right in that in the face of the faltering progress of our North Sea development the right hon. Gentleman is displaying complacency which is terrifying? Will he now recognise what the Government's policies are doing in creating uncertainty and doubt in an area where there should be the maximum certainty, enterprise and incentive if we are to go anywhere near achieving the target about which he has told us?

Mr. Varley

The right hon. Gentleman wants maximum surrender. The British people would not have a proper share and stake in their own oil if the matter were left to him. Ever since the present Government came into office, the right hon. Gentleman has had a vested interest in seeing that this country should fail. I hope he will get out of that soon.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. Question Time is not a time for debate.

Sir Bernard Braine

On a point of order.

Mr. Speaker

We will have the point of order at the end of Question Time.

Later—

Sir Bernard Braine

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. During Question Time the Secretary of State for Energy said, within the hearing of many hon. Members, that ever since the present Government took office my right hon. Friend the Member for Wanstead and Woodford (Mr. Jenkin) had had a vested interest in preventing public participation in the development of North Sea oil. The words may have been used loosely but they nevertheless have a very clear connotation in this Chamber. They reflect upon the integrity of my right hon. Friend. It was an uncharacteristic remark by the Secretary of State and it might have been but a slip of the tongue. I hope that you can afford the Secretary of State the opportunity to withdraw and to apologise to my right hon. Friend.

Mr. Speaker

In my view, if it was a reference to a vested financial interest that is one thing, but if it was a question of a vested political interest it is a different thing. Perhaps the Secretary of State will clarify.

Mr. Varley

I did not in any way imply that there was a vested financial or commercial interest, Mr. Speaker, but I did imply, of course, that there was a vested political interest in the continued carping by the right hon. Member for Wanstead and Woodford (Mr. Jenkin) at our policy.

Mr. Jenkin

I accept the Secretary of State's apology in the sense that it was offered. Perhaps I can, by way of further explanation, assure the right hon. Gentleman that, following a briefing from his own Department, which I was grateful to have, I spent a fair part of the last recess trying to reassure companies in Canada and the United States that wiser counsel would prevail and that they would be able to continue to operate in the North Sea.

Mr. William Hamilton

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Can the right hon. Member for Wanstead and Woodford (Mr. Jenkin) make it clear that it was the oil companies which paid for his journey to America?

Mr. Jenkin

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. If the hon. Gentleman will read the statements I made at the first and fifth sittings of the Committee's proceedings, he will see exactly what I was up to.