HC Deb 18 December 1975 vol 902 cc1762-82

9.8 p.m.

Mr. Hector Monro (Dumfries)

I am glad to have the chance to initiate a debate on the A74 and the A75. I must express my gratitude to Lord Kirkhill, who has been most recently in charge of the roads department of the Scottish Development Department and has written me a number of helpful letters.

Recently the regional chief executive of Dumfries and Galloway said that when history was written about the South-West of Scotland it would be a tale of two roads—the A74 and the A75. The first is the main artery between England and Scotland. The second is the vital link from Carlisle to Stranraer. Few areas can be so involved with major trunk routes as those through which these roads pass. In this case 80 per cent. of the population lives alongside them, yet the A74 and A75 are inadequate for their purposes. Both carry vast volumes of traffic with ever-increasing numbers of container wagons and, happily, tourists in the summer. A major acceleration of tourism has developed since the completion of the M6, and both in that respect and in connection with industry, the potential of South-West Scotland is bound up with these two roads.

I deal first with the A74. In 1937 proposals were in hand to upgrade the road to dual carriageway, perhaps on a new route. Because of the war only a stretch of the old route was completed. Few roads can have been in such a bad state of repair, alignment and congestion. We forget just what a misery it was to drive on that road in the 1940s and the 1950s. That is why it was the first major road for major reconstruction after the war. Perhaps that is unfortunate, because it was designed before the motorway conception was the normal form of major reconstruction.

The subsequent increase in traffic was just not envisaged, and it is not fair to blame the planners in the 1940s, because at that time we were pleased to get anything at all. The construction took years and it was not until it was completed in 1973 and providing a high speed road throughout its length that its inherent dangers became obvious. This is partly because the construction of the last stretch, the Gretna by-pass, went on until shortly before it was opened and traffic was slowed down effectively from the M6 on to the A74.

The Minister will know that, despite frequent headlines in the Press, I have never personally used the phrase "killer road" and I do not intend to do so tonight. Few accidents are just accidents. They are mostly caused by human error or lack of skill and experience in adverse weather conditions. But it is our duty to see that drivers are constantly on their guard and to provide the safest conditions.

For a multitude of reasons, the situation is serious and deteriorating. I am not speaking with hindsight. The files of the Scottish Development Department must be heavy with correspondence from me, fromthe Dumfries County Council, from residents, from the NFU, from the AA and RAC and now, of course, from the regional authority. The local authorities have certainly played their part in bringing out the serious defects of this road.

I know from my own experience that Ministers are responsible for Departments. I think that all Ministers responsible have been to see the A74 and the A75 for themselves. After some thought, however, Ithink that a fair comment might be that Ministers may come and Ministers may go but the SDD goes on for ever.

If there is a common theme in the letters that I have had from Ministers over many years and covering both Governments, and the letters from the Department to local authorities, it is the expression of a reluctance to do anything except as a last resort and then only after the greatest consultation with the Road Research Laboratory, the Road Safety Unit and every other body which has given its advice. I remember this particularly because when I first suggested the commercial vehicles sign which has subsequently been quite a success—recently improved by the addition of the 40 mph figures—I was almost driven to despair in trying to get one of them accepted and erected anywhere in Scotland.

What I have said is true also of the incredibly slow progress with the continuous central barrier, a most important feature which should continue for the length of the road. I have been pressing for such a barrier since 1972, yet in 1975 the same arguments are being trotted out, couched in such terrible jargon as "cross-median accidents" and expressing the view that somehow accidents would be less dangerous if cars crossed the central reservation than if they hit other cars going the same way. If the experts still think that, I say flatly that they are wrong. Many lives could have been saved over 10 years if there had been a continuous central reservation barrier. I am therefore glad that this is likely to be erected in the not-too-distant future north of Beat-tock, even though it seems to be going against the Department's arguments over a very long time.

The Minister knows of the statistics that the Secretary of State has provided in many Written Questions. The important fact which emerges is that at either end of the A74 are the M74 and the M6, both of which have much lower accident rates than the A74, although carting the same traffic flow. This has certainly been a bad year for the A74. There have been 30 deaths. I need not reiterate the tragic bus accident that happened in June and the many other fatal accidents, all of which have been personal disasters to the families concerned.

I want to record how fortunate we are to have such brilliant doctors, and medical staff at the Dumfries Royal Infirmary and to record appreciation to those ambulancemen, policemen and firemen involved.

I shall put statistics aside, The plain fact is that this road is accident-prone and but for the slight reduction in the volume of traffic on account of the fuel crisis, accident figures would have been worse. I hope that the Scottish Office and the Minister will be flexible when they examine the statistics because there has been an unhappy trend of accidents on this road over the past year or so.

Everyone knows that a road of motorway standards is the ideal and only solution but we must be practical in terms of costs. An alternative service road and an upgrading of the A74 to motorway standard would probably cost in the region of £100 million. Alternatively, we could consider an additional third lane which would not involve the road being upgraded to motorway standard. In that case, we should not need the alternative service road. However, that does not solve the problem of agricultural vehicles or even pedestrians. I realise the chaos that would occur on the present road, with delays and frustration over several years, if a major reconstruction took place.

Therefore, I want to deal practically with the situation over the next two years bearing in mind cost and the limit on Government expenditure. However, there is room for some redistribution of money between the Ministries and the A74 might benefit from this. I appreciate that at present about £300,000 is being spent on the A74 on additional lengths of barrier, hard strips, drainage, resurfacing and reflecting studs. Anyone who drives on the A74 at present can see the cost of those improvements in terms of congestion. That is a fact of life, It is a pity that when improvements to roads are carried out there is not greater co-ordination with services such as the Post Office, because the Post Office is running a cable along the A74 at the same time as these improvements are taking place and this adds extensively to the inconvenience.

I wish to make 10 points about the A74. First, the continuous central barrier reduces the severity of accidents and saves lives. Second, there is the issue of the bridge at Johnstone Bridge for pedestrians. School children have to cross the road here to get a bus, and this bridge was under consideration in 1973. In 1974 and 1975 I heard nothing more about it, although I appreciate that the junction has been upgraded to an extent.

Third, 30 schoolchildren join the bus for the short ride between Lockerbie and Ecclefechan. We shall have to consider additional lay-bys for school buses because the children have to get on and off at the farm road ends. Perhaps there could even be a recommendation from the Secretary of State for Scotland that school buses should be fitted with hazard warning lights when they are stationary so that passing traffic can see them more readily.

Fourth, I want to ask the Minister about underpasses. We have advocated these for many years. More recently, the local authority has conducted a safety and operational study of underpasses for dairy farmers who have to drive their herds across this dual carriageway twice a day and find it extremely hazardous. Indeed, on occasions they might have to cross the dual carriageway four times daily, going to and from milking. Two or three underpasses at the farms most specifically concerned would be very advantageous.

Fifth, and importantly, the Minister must look again at the signs to be seen when leaving the M6 coming north on to the A74. I know that the signs change from blue to green and that the carriageways reduce from three to two. However, when one has been driving 330 miles from London, one tends perhaps to be concentrating not as hard as one would as one comes to the interchange at Carlisle. I believe that very many motorists honestly do not realise that they have changed from the M6 to the A74. This involves an immediate effect on commercial vehicles in that they are reduced to 40 m.p.h. This is most important.

For this reason—and sixth—I have been rather disappointed with my efforts to persuade the Government to do rather more to inform foreign tourists about our fuel-saving speed limits. Many overseas visitors—I see many going up and down the road in the summer—just do not realise that we have fuel-saving speed limits and that if they leave the M6 and go on to the A74 their speed should be reduced to 60 mph. instead of the 70 mph they have been doing for 300 miles. I asked the Minister concerned to arrange for special signs to be erected at the tourist centre south of Carlisle, but I got a dusty answer. We should do more to inform visitors about our speed limits.

Seventh, I want to see continued pressure by our overworked police on controlling and keeping down the speed of commercial vehicles. This has been a big success. I congratulate the police force. Every time I travel along the road I notice that the container wagons and articulated lorries are going slower now that their drivers know that they are more likely to be caught and have severe fines imposed upon them in the sheriff courts. I hope that within the resources—I know that it costs a lot of money—this continues.

Eighth, I hope that every right turn on the dual carriageway will have a central slip road so that one can get off the fast lane.

Ninth, I should like to see a ban on parking in lay-bys on the side of the A74. Some people have been killed when sitting in their car or a caravan. I should like to see the local authority able to provide more picnic spots away from the carriageway. The local authority has been pressing for this since 1972, but nothing has happened.

Lastly, in relation to the A74 I want the Government to look very carefully—as I am sure they are doing—at the medium term and whether we should be considering upgrading this road as the years roll ahead of us, because we must not be complacent and think that this road will be adequate into the 1980s.

I know that the Minister will in time answer many of these points. I turn rather more briefly to the A75. I notice that the hon. Member for Galloway (Mr. Thompson) is present in the Chamber. I am sure that he will want to talk a little about the road as it affects his constituency. It is equally important and, as I shall show to the Minister, internationally important. This is a much more simple story, which will not take so long to tell. It is the main artery between Stranraer and Dumfries in the south and from Galloway to Edinburgh, and now it is the Euro-road between Belfast and the Continent. The Minister will know of the amazing build-up of container traffic from the terminals at Stranraer and Cairnryan, most of which uses this road from the roll-on/roll-off ferries. The build-up has been impressive and is most important.

I hope that the Minister will remember these figures when I speak shortly about the Dumfries traffic survey. In 1968, according to the figures I have, 28,000 commercial vehicles used the ferries at Stranraer, and in 1975 the figure had built up to 125,000 commercial vehicles, mostly large container vehicles. Of course, as on the A74 there has been a huge increase in tourism and caravans since the opening of the M6. That we welcome, but we must try to provide adequate roads for tourists and caravans.

In addition to what I have said about tourism and caravans, it is the main road for industry and communication in the South-West of Scotland. I have written to the Secretary of State for the Environment about the possibility of the closure of the Dumfries-Kilmarnock railway line. I hope that there is no truth in that suggestion.

I know that a substantial sum has already been spent on the road, but there is much to do. I should be grateful if the Minister could answer some of the questions of which I have given him advance notice.

Going from the East to the West, unlike young Lochinvar, I should tell the House that Lord Hughes was very good in coming to Gretna last spring to look at the Callendar-Hamilton temporary Bailey bridge built across the A74. After he had talked to the councillors and myself, there was some optimism that he would give a favourable decision in the not-too-distant future. The Department has had the figures since the end of April. The difference between the estimates for one scheme and another was very small. It is essential to have a new bridge on the site of the present bridge, because we cannot return to the old single-carriageway bridge over the River Sark.

At Rigg the local authority has begun the maximum action following inquiries by residents. It is now up to the noble Lord, Lord Kirkhill, to make a decision on the speed limit. I am sure that he will do so as soon as he has the facts.

There is heavy congestion in Annan, with a long tailback, particularly in summer. There has been much pressure from the town of Annan and the local authority to get ahead with planning the bypass for Eastriggs and Annan.

There is also pressure for progress on the bypass at Collin. I sent a petition bearing 667 signatures to the noble Lord, Lord Hughes. There has been a long delay over planning that bypass, and the local residents are deeply concerned. I hope that the Minister of State will give the local authority permission to go ahead with the planning survey as soon as possible.

To me, the main issue is the bypass at Dumfries. We must have an outer ring road plus a new bridge over the River Nith. The old idea of an inner ring road is outdated, particularly on account of the ferry traffic, which has made such a difference to the road, and the general increase in local traffic. We must have an outer ring road with a link to the A76 to Kilmarnock and Ayr and to the A75 to Stranraer. If that happens, an inner ring road will be unnecessary.

The Department has been putting pressure on the regional authority, saying that it must do the work itself. There is an astonishing anomaly. The distance from Stranraer to London is 403 miles, and the Government are responsible for all but the three going through the town of Dumfries. I know that this goes back to large burgh days, and that there may have been a defect in the legislation. But, whatever has happened, the Government must accept that they cannot opt out of the issue, leaving a regional authority to look after three miles between Stranraer and London. This is such an obvious defect that the Government must think again.

The Government must help a community that has been plagued by heavy vehicles. The centre of Dumfries has become a nightmare of noise, vibration and pollution. Exeter and Carlisle used to be the great bottlenecks of Britain. Now Dumfries is one.

The matter causes me great concern in summer. We do not want so to frighten tourists that they do not return to this attractive part of the world.

In conclusion, I trespass briefly into the territory of the hon. Member for Galloway. I do so to highlight the situation at Newton Stewart, for which I give him my support in advance. There is no alternative bridge over the River Cree. If there were a major defect to that bridge we would be in dead trouble because of all the container traffic using it day and night. I hope that the Minister will go ahead with the bypass as soon as possible.

There have been many other schemes in the pipeline and I know that we must be reasonable about expense. They cannot all be done at once. Nevertheless, bone that the Minister of State will give us some encouraging answers. If he does they will be most welcome in an area that lives with its roads and has to live with their difficulties.

9.31 p.m.

Mr. George Thompson (Galloway)

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Dumfries (Mr. Monro) for raising the matter of the A75. I had the pleasure last night of meeting some of the Ocean Islanders who are hoping to hear some of their affairs debated at a later stage. I promised that I would try to be as brief as possible so as to facilitate matters for those who are raising other subjects.

I have represented Galloway for only a year and a bit but already I have quite a sizeable file on the A75. If I added to it the letters of the complaint from individuals about their individual problems a two-inch Treasury tag would not serve to hold the file together any longer.

I shall divide my speech into two parts. First, I want to take a mental motor run along the A75 from Dumfries to Stranraer. I hope that someone from the Scottish Office will one day be persuaded to make the actual journey. They have already seen the stretch from Gretna to Dumfries and it is high time that they saw the other stretch. Perhaps the Minister of State will put a word in the ear of Lord Kirkhill. Second, I want to make one or two general observations on the A75.

I heartily support the hon. Member for Dumfries in his remarks about Dumfries town. Although I may be slightly trespassing on his territory, we in Galloway depend upon Dumfries as our railhead. That applies especially to those who live in the eastern part of the old province.

The first constituency matter that I raise is the need for a 30 mph limit in the village of Springholme. I have taken up this matter with the noble Lord and he has promised to investigate it. Although it is true that there is not a run of houses on both sides of the A75 in this village, there is a large housing scheme and a school on a minor road which feeds into the A75 in the middle of the village street. People who want to get to the shops or the hotel, or children crossing to their homes on the other side of the A75, have the difficulty of dealing with traffic which is travelling at considerable speeds Further, I draw to the attention of the right hon. Gentleman that some of the council houses are occupied by elderly people who must find the conditions particularly trying.

I have no doubt that Castle Douglas will get a bypass in due course. Perhaps the pressure is not so great at present because there are two streets that take traffic and the local traffic is fairly vigorous, tending to hold up the juggernauts that might be tempted to press on a little too fast. Then there is the bridge over the River Dee which is high and narrow. The road going to it from Castle Douglas goes into almost a right-angled bend before it crosses the bridge. I have taken up the matter with the Scottish Office and I have been told that traffic lights would not be possible because they would hold up the flow of traffic, especially when there is not a flow from both directions at the same time.

Can the Minister say when the new bridge will be built? I am happy to mention Twynholm because it has its bypass and it is now once more a pleasant place to live in and to visit.

On the subject of Gatehouse-of-Fleet, I had a letter this week from the Interim Community Council drawing attention to facts of which I was well aware at an earlier stage because at the last two General Elections I felt that I was taking my life in my hands every time I crossed the street in that area. It required some agility to cross the street safely. What can the situation be like for the elderly people in the town because it is a town that has attracted to it many older people?

We have heard about the situation of towns and villages through which the A75 passes. What about the structural damage inflicted on houses? Gatehouse has a problem because there is a steep hill in the area as one comes from the direction of Kirkcudbright. This means that vehicles tend to come into the town too rapidly from the point of view of safety. On the other hand, vehicles coming from the other direction tend to speed up to take the hill.

In Creetown there is a narrow bridge. It is interesting from an architectural point of view, but not quite what is needed on the A75 today. Again this is a village that requires a bypass.

Newton Stewart should be the happiest town on the A75 because the inhabitants know that they will be the first on the list for a bypass. Yet I assure the Minister that the inhabitants' happiness has been tempered because the Scottish Office will not commit itself to a date for that bypass.

I quote from a letter received from the noble Lord, Lord Kirkhill, as follows: I accept that the delay in starting the Newton Stewart bypass is bound to have caused some disappointment. He can say that again! He continues: In all the circumstances it would be difficult to give an undertaking that the bypass will definitely start in 1977–78, but I can repeat the assurance that it is a strong candidate for inclusion in the programme of starts in that year. The people of Newton Stewart are not satisfied to be "strong candidates". They want something more.

The hon. Member for Dumfries pointed out what would happen if the bridge in Newton Stewart collapsed. It would be a catastrophe for the control of that section of the highway.

I then wish to mention Glenluce. But first I must mention stretches of the road in the vicinity of Kirkcowan where there are double white lines for hundreds of yards. I regard Glenluce as possibly the most dangerous village on the A75. It has a narrow, steep street with a twist in it.

I remember in my maiden speech last year mentioning an accident involving a juggernaut that crossed the street and attempted to enter a hotel, not by the main door. At present there is a proposal to restrict parking to one side of the street in some parts of the village and to abolish parking in other parts. The effect of that move would be deleterious on the village because traffic would no longer stop there on the way to other areas. People on their way to Stranraer or Newton Stewart often stop in the village for shopping, as do tourists on their way to other areas. Therefore if there are no adjacent parking places to the A75 shops in the village would gradually run down.

I also wish to mention Challoch railway bridge between Glenluce and Stranraer. There have been accidents on that part of the road because of the difficult bends. I am not sure what could be done about that bridge but I hope that the Scottish Development Department will examine the situation.

In Stranraer we face the difficulty that the harbour is in the middle of the town. Heavy goods vehicles have to travel through the town to get there. Admittedly, alterations are being made to London Road so that they will at least be able to turn the corner a bit more successfully. We can only regret that the harbour was not built a little further to the east, along Loch Ryan. That would have saved the town this inconvenience.

I turn to more general matters. The loss of the railway has thrown much traffic on to the A75. The opening of the new ferry port at Cairnryan by Townsend-Thorensen brought even more traffic. We welcome this because we are glad to have the extra employment it provides in the area—an area that has been, and still is, plagued by unemployment. People have had to learn to put up with the heavy vehicles thundering through the towns and villages day and night. We owe it to them, however, to press for the necessary bypasses.

I wish to refer to a legal problem which I raised with the Lord Advocate on 18th June. I do not expect the Minister of State to reply to this tonight, but perhaps he might mention it to his right hon. and learned Friend. I raised the matter of Irish drivers who commit traffic offences and who cannot be brought before the Scottish courts because they cannot be arrested for minor offences. These people return to Ireland and cannot be brought back. The Lord Advocate replied: This matter is, however, causing me some concern and it is under active consideration by the Home Office Committee. I understand that various matters which may have a bearing on this problem have also been considered by the Thomson Committee on Criminal Procedure in Scotland."—[Official Report, 18th June 1975; Vol. 893, c. 1390.] The right hon. and learned Gentleman was correct because I find in the Second Report of the Thomson Committee at page 76 the admission that: There is no way by which an accused person resident in Northern Ireland may be cited to a Scottish summary court. At the end of the chapter, it is said: We cannot make specific recommendations in relation to procedures which apply outwith Scotland but we do recommend that the appropriate authorities in England and Wales and Northern Ireland be approached by the Scottish authorities with a view to entering into discussions to establish a simple method of citation which would apply throughout the whole of the United Kingdom. I hope that the Government will be able to take action on this.

We are bound to look to the future. One of the things which will loom large in the future of Galloway is the timber industry. We have vast expenses of forest. As the years go by, the volume of timber being carried on the A75 will increase, thus adding yet another procession of heavy goods vehicles to that already overburdened highway. There are always rumours in South-West Scotland that there may possibly be oil off our shores. Yesterday I received a reply to a Question tabled to the Secretary of State for Scotland—not a very good reply—concerning the steps he intends to take at Cairnryan to prepare for the exploitation of possible oil finds in the waters off Western and Southern Scotland. The right hon. Gentleman replied: I have no proposals under consideration. Developments at Cairnryan, in the light of such requirements as may emerge, would be a matter initially for the local authority concerned."—[Official Report, 17th December 1975; Vol. 902, c. 665.] I hope that we have the right to expect that if such finds are made we shall not have to wait for a long period for the A75 to be made up to the standard necessary for bringing in the required materials.

If it were possible, the best idea would be to have a plan prepared so that people in each town and village would know roughly the order in which various bypasses were to be built. When people know that something is to be done in a certain order, they will tolerate the inconvenience and, after all, these people have already tolerated inconvenience for years. We people of Galloway are not thrawn, cantankerous people who simply make up problems with which to bamboozle or inconvenience the Scottish Office. I am sure the Minister will accept that we are genuinely concerned about the A75 and I hope that he will be able to give us some positive assurances tonight.

9.46 p.m.

The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Mr. Bruce Millan)

I congratulate the hon. Member for Dumfries (Mr. Monro) on gaining such an early place in the Ballot and on raising these points about roads in the South-West of Scotland. As he has mentioned, he has had considerable correspondence with my noble Friend Lord Kirkhill about many of these matters, and I know that that is also true of the hon. Member for Galloway (Mr. Thompson). Lord Kirkhill is normally responsible on a day-to-day basis for the matters the hon. Members have raised, but it is my duty to answer this debate and I shall attempt to do so as best I can and in as much detail as I can. If there are any matters which I do not cover, I hope that the hon. Members will agree that I should arrange for my noble Friend to reply to them by letter on these points.

A general point has to be made first in all these debates. At any time, the improvements mentioned by the hon. Members would cost money, in some cases considerable amounts. We are in a period of financial stringency and the question of priorities is as important in regard to roads as it is to anything else. It is not enough to demonstrate, as can be demonstrated in many of these matters, that improvements are desirable and are very much wanted by the local community. It is also necessary to demonstrate that they merit a high place in the scheme of priorities for roads expenditure which itself has to fit into a wider scheme of priorities in public expenditure generally. It is an unfortunate fact that some of the improvements suggested for the A75, although obviously very desirable projects, do not, in the Government's view, merit the priority which the local community and both hon. Members would like them to have.

The responsibility of the regional council is also involved. It has an obligation to prepare transport policies and programmes. The Scottish Office, to help the regional council, suggested four schemes which we considered might represent a five-year plan. One of these was the Newton Stewart bypass about which I shall say something in a moment.

But it was also proposed that investigation work should be carried out on a further six schemes for which draft planning briefs were issued in September, and final briefs will be issued shortly in the light of the council's comments. Those schemes included a number of those which were mentioned tonight.

Taking the Annan and Collin bypasses, to which the hon. Member for Dumfries referred, the position at the moment is that the region has submitted planning briefs for these bypasses and they will shortly be returned with a formal invitation by the Department to the region to undertake a study of possible road lines and to make recommendation. After that, the necessary trunk road orders will be made. Admittedly, we are at an early stage, but the preparation for these schemes is going ahead.

Of course, even after the orders have been laid and any public inquiries and so on have taken place, if they should be necessary, there is still the all-important question of finding a place for these schemes in the programme. But I hope that mention of these two schemes in this preliminary way at least indicates that the Department does not dispute that these schemes are necessary. It is simply a matter of fitting the expenditure into the programme.

The other four schemes on which investigation work is continuing are Castle Douglas, Ardachie, Glenluce and Gatehouse-of-Fleet. If I am not able to go into some of the detailed matters raised by the hon. Member for Galloway, I hope that he will accept that the Department agree that in all these areas there is a need to start the planning process to produce schemes in due course which then will have to be fitted into the programme.

The Newton Stewart bypass is a matter which has been the subject of correspondence. The hon. Member for Galloway had a letter from my noble Friend in October. We accept that this is a scheme to which the local community is very much attached, as is the regional council. When we have said that this is a strong candidate for inclusion in 1977–78, we have said as much as we can reasonably say at present. I cannot add anything to what my noble Friend said about that, but clearly again we recognise that it is an important scheme. If we did not face this difficulty about public expenditure, it would be bound to have a high priority. We shall give it as high a priority as we can.

The hon. Member for Dumfries referred, of course, to Dumfries but again there is not a great deal that I can add to what has been said already. I know that it may appear prima facie rather anomalous that a small part of what is obviously a much longer road is the responsibility of the local authority and not of the Scottish Office. All that I can say is that the rules have been applied here as they were applied by his own Government and exactly as they are applied elsewhere.

I understand the regional council's view. From the council's point of view it would be desirable for the Scottish Office to take over responsibility for this stretch of road. We could not do that without creating a precedent for similar propositions. If there were evidence—I do not believe that there is—that Dumfries were being treated unfairly compared with other areas of Scotland, I should be willing to consider the matter, but we hold the firm view that it is a matter for the regional council.

The hon. Gentleman said that the idea of the inner ring road is outdated. That idea arises from the 1968 study. Obviously, 1975 is not 1968, and there have been traffic developments. I accept much of what the hon. Gentleman said about increased traffic on the road and the different nature of the traffic on the A75 generally since 1968. It does not necessarily follow that, because there has been an increase in traffic, the basic considerations which led to the conclusion in 1968, about the inner ring road are falsified. This matter is always open to debate and discussion.

The Department suggested to the local authority that the data on which the 1968 study was based should be brought up to date. The study was done in such a way as to allow for updating. That is no doubt a technical and complicated procedure. It is in the first instance a matter for the regional authority. If the regional authority is willing to carry out the work, we have told the authority that the Department's engineers would be willing to give every possible assistance in determining what information would be appropriate for any re-run of the existing traffic model. I concede that from the point of view of the regional council there is little or no disadvantage in doing that exercise, but we do not accept that the 1968 conclusions are necessarily falsified.

The hon. Member for Dumfries also referred to the Callander-Hamilton Bridge. I have looked into the history. Various proposals for replacing the temporary bridge have been considered in an attempt to construct a permanent crossing of the River Sark. The bridge is a temporary one which belongs to the Scottish Development Department and should be returned to the Department's stock of temporary bridges. As a matter of priority, I see no prospect of a permanent arrangement—which would be quite expensive—at this site. In those circumstances we are not keen to remove the temporary bridge as to do so would necessarily create considerable problems. The Department is willing to leave the bridge there. I do not pretend that it is a permanent solution but at least it maintains the temporary solution.

The A74 has had a tremendous amount of publicity in recent months. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and Scottish Office Ministers generally appreciate that the hon. Member for Dumfries has always approached the problems of this road responsibly. There has been a good deal of exaggerated comment about the road—in which the hon. Gentleman has not engaged. However, he has tonight expressed his own strong dissatisfaction with the conditions on the road.

It is difficult to say that the road is not as bad as the newspapers quite often make it out to be without sounding complacent. In view of the tragic accidents which have taken place on that road during the current year the last thing one would want to do is to sound complacent. However, when we consider the situation as a whole, the accident figures show that in terms of frequency and so on the accidents on this road are not substantially different from accidents on similar roads elsewhere. Indeed, the number of accidents on this road—I am talking now about the total number of accidents involving injury or death—has tended to decrease in recent years. The number decreased in 1974 and I am glad to say that in the 11 months to the end of November 1975 there has been a further decrease. Therefore, the frequency of serious accidents, although it is alarming, is not increasing. However, during the current year there have been a number of tragic accidents with the result that the number of deaths, as the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, will show a considerable increase for 1975.

I accept that there is a good deal of justice in the point which the hon. Gentleman made—namely, that it is only when tragic accidents occur that one feels a sense of urgency which perhaps ought to be present when dealing with any of our road problems. I am not suggesting that there has not been a considerable amount of attention given to the A74. A programme of improvements was initiated in 1973 when the Conservatives were in power. That programme has gone ahead. We have considered the whole problem of the A74 this year and the hon. Gentleman has acknowledged that a good deal of additional work is now going ahead on that road.

We cannot produce a dramatic solution which will solve the problems quickly. The most radical solution would be the conversion to motorway. I do not think that is justified at present in terms of the capacity of the road corn-pared with the traffic or in public expenditure terms. Such a solution would take several years to complete so it would not deal with the immediate problem. However, what improvements we can make we wish to proceed with as rapidly as possible.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned speeding and the enforcement of limits. I do not think there is any doubt that anyone who has used the road—I do not use it frequently but I have used it on occasions—knows that people drive at excessive speed on that road. That has been one of the great difficulties.

The hon. Gentleman also knows that there has been a considerable increase in police activity. In the four months starting July this year over 900 cases of speeding have been reported. That figure signifies two points—first, the frequency with which the speeding offences are being perpetrated on this road and, secondly, that there has been a good deal of police activity I was glad to hear that the hon. Gentleman say that from his personal experience he had noticed an improvement because vehicles, especially lorries, were not speeding so much. I believe that the message has now got over to the users of the road that the road is being heavily patrolled and that anyone who speeds on that road is in danger of being picked up and fined, I hope severely. The police action is making some kind of an impact. Certainly the patrolling of the roads is something which we shall continue.

The A74—a long road in its own right—is between two motorways and the driver who is not sufficiently aware or the incompetent driver can be misled into thinking that he can drive at motorway speeds on it. The signposting system is being overhauled. Additional A74 repeater signs have been erected and 40 miles per hour roundels have been erected to remind lorry drivers of the 40 mph speed limit for their vehicles. A good deal of that work has already been done. One effect of the recent publicity is that no Scottish driver who reads Scottish newspapers should be in any doubt about the status of the A74. I believe that the message is getting through.

A number of other things are being done. Hard strips are being provided on both sides of each carriageway so that the kerbs can be moved outwards, thereby enabling vehicles to use the full width of the carriageway. About six miles have been completed in Dumfriesshire. One access has been closed. We are discussing with the Dumfries and Galloway Regional Council the possibility of closing other accesses and of lengthening lay-bys and acceleration lanes. These points were mentioned by the hon Gentleman.

Some of these matters take longer than people would like, but no road matters are susceptible of speedy solutions. Recently considerable lengths of the road were resurfaced because the long hot summer had aggravated normal wear and tear. That was particularly true on the Beattock bypass and on parts of the Lockerbie bypass. On the section from Blacklaw to Beattock village about four kilometres of central barrier are being installed. This work includes central hard strips. The barriers will be erected in the New Year. That is an area where there have been some tragic accidents.

I do not quite agree with the hon. Gentleman about central barriers generally. This is a complicated argument. It is rather frustrating when what appears to be an obvious solution to some of these accident problems is not accepted as such by the Department involved. However, a good deal of study is available on the efficacy of central barriers. It is by no means proven that in general circumstances they necessarily reduce the numbers of accidents. There is obviously a strong argument for central barriers at particular parts of the road. I have already mentioned one part of the road. A number of other areas are under study at the moment.

We recognise the importance of both these roads and that traffic on them has increased considerably in recent years. We also recognise that both roads, apart from their importance to Scotland as a whole, are of tremendous economic significance to the area. We recognise that both roads could be considerably improved. There is no shortage of ideas for improving either of these roads. Many suggestions have been made tonight. We accept that many of the schemes which have been mentioned are desirable, although I do not accept everything suggested tonight as being necessary or desirable. However, I do not dispute that many of the points which have been made are valid in terms of improving the roads and the living conditions of the local community.

Many studies are already taking place and schemes are being prepared. At the end of the day it comes down to the question of finance. However, this part of Scotland will certainly have no less priority than other areas. Its problems are well understood. They have been ventilated on numerous occasions, including tonight. I assure hon. Members that their points will be considered, I hope sympathetically, by my noble Friend Lord Kirkhill.