HC Deb 16 December 1975 vol 902 cc1158-60
Q1. Mr. Pattie

asked the Prime Minister whether he will dismiss the Secretary of State for Defence.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Wilson)

I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Conway (Mr. Roberts) on 11th December.

Mr. Pattie

If the Prime Minister will not agree to put his right hon. Friend out of his misery by dismissing him, would he at least agree to give him his full support? Does the Prime Minister support that part of the Cabinet which believes that we should honour our NATO commitment to the full, or the part which seems to believe in death by a thousand defence cuts?

The Prime Minister

Taking what I am sure was the serious content in the hon. Member's mind, if not in his words, I have already made clear, and I repeat it now, that there will be no reductions in defence expenditure that will reduce the effectiveness of our contribution to NATO. Any reduction will be on tail, not teeth.

Mr. Frank Allaun

Would my right hon. Friend confirm that the defence review, far from cutting expenditure, has actually increased it, as the Secretary of State for Defence has admitted? Does my right hon. Friend stand by our election commitment to reduce our proportion of resources devoted to arms to the level of Western European NATO countries, thus saving £1.2 billion a year for social needs and industrial re-equipment? Will my right hon. Friend refuse the cry for drastic cuts in almost everything except arms spending?

The Prime Minister

The effect of the defence review was substantially to reduce the defence programme that we inherited from the previous Government, whose members are still pressing for big increases in defence while talking at the same time about expenditure cuts. I fully accept what my hon. Friend has said in the second part of his question and I hope to have his full support in all measures affecting the expansion of our GNP, as well as in those cuts in defence that can be made without impairing our essential contribution to NATO which, I am sure, is the last thing he would want.

Mrs. Thatcher

As the subject of jobs is very much to the fore today, can the Prime Minister say how many jobs have been lost through the cuts already announced by the Secretary of State for Defence?

The Prime Minister

I would require notice of that question, but the answer has already been given in the House by my right hon. Friend. Since the right hon. Lady is absolutely right to stress the subject of jobs in highly vulnerable areas of the country, I take that as an indication that she will not be voting against the Government's proposals tonight.

Mrs. Thatcher

I assumed that the Prime Minister would know the answer.

The Prime Minister

It has been given to the House. It was before the Cabinet in all the discussions we had on the defence review, and it is a figure that we have accepted as tolerable, not least because there are big increases in the number of jobs connected with arms exports.