§ 4. Mr. Teddy Taylorasked the Secretary of State for Scotland what estimate he has made of the average rates paid per household, expressed as a sum per calendar month, in the current rating year; and what were the comparable figures per month in each of the previous three years.
§ Mr. William RossFor 1975–76 the average monthly rate bill per household in Scotland is estimated at just over £10, compared with £6.90 in 1974–75, £5.90 in 1973–74 and £5.50 in 1972–73.
§ Mr. TaylorIs not the Secretary of State ashamed to report figures which show that the rates burden per household per month has increased by about half in 12 months, particularly when part of the reason is his abysmal failure to negotiate and obtain from the Treasury an interim relief scheme for Scottish ratepayers? Does he not agree that next year will be another serious rating year for Scotland because of his reduction of the percentage rates of grant, unless this is accompanied by a comparable reduction in expenditure by local councils? Will he therefore consider fixing a maximum percentage increase for rates by each local authority?
§ Mr. TaylorThat is the counsel of despair.
§ Mr. RossIt is not the counsel of despair: it is facing the facts of the statutory obligations placed on me and on 436 local authorities. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was in the Government at the time, but it was his Government that introduced the reorganisation Act and he was one of those who, during the General Election in October 1974, raced around in a car labelled "Freedom" campaigning for freedom to local authorities. Now he is asking me to take over the whole task of controlling—
§ Mr. TaylorIn an emergency.
§ Mr. TaylorNo, it is not.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. It is intolerable, when a Minister is answering, to have constant sedentary interruptions.
§ Mr. RossThe hon. Gentleman knows that that point is just outwith practicability.
The hon. Gentleman will know from answers already given that the Scottish local authorities turned down an interim relief scheme because it would have been unfair to those faced with the highest rate poundages in Scotland. He must not omit the fact that if reorganisation costs more money, he should have been concerned about it before in relation to some of the local authority set-ups which were created.
The hon. Gentleman must also appreciate that services must be paid for and that local government services are labour intensive. I do not remember any Conservative Member, among those who are now screaming about the bills coming home, saying anything when we were dealing with the local authority workers, teachers and all those others who received increases. It all has to be paid for and they should face up to it. Those people who led marches demanding even more for some local authority workers should not run away from the responsibility now.
§ Mr. David SteelDoes not the right hon. Gentleman accept as a fact that the shift in the balance of the rate support grant from rural to urban areas, combined, as it happened, with the cost of reorganisation, has led to rates increases well above the forecast 25 per cent. in certain areas of Scotland? Will he take these factors into account when calculating this next year?
§ Mr. RossYes, but I do not think that it was that factor which led to the increase above the 25 per cent. I have said before that there has been over-budgeting by Scottish local authorities. I have constantly tried to bring that over-budgeting to their attention and have said that, because they are gathering in this money, that does not mean that they should spend it. By reasonable prudence, they should be able to build up a considerable cushion for next year. As for the transitional payment, we made provision to some extent last year and 50 per cent. of that is carrying on into this year.
§ Mr. SillarsIs my right hon. Friend aware that a serious injustice is done to some people in rural areas who do not get sewerage and garbage disposal services and who have to pay for them privately? Is there any action that he can take, short of new legislation, at least to eradicate that injustice to a fair number of people?
§ Mr. RossMy hon. Friend must appreciate that this is a matter which was dealt with in the legislation itself. These things were covered in the old days with the designation of "special districts", but those are now out. One must consider the services provided by local authorities all over the country. For instance, many people who have no children pay for education. There is a complex sort of cross-subsidy of individuals and their needs in local government expenditure and we must bear that in mind.
§ Mr. MacCormickDoes not the Secretary of State agree, to use the highly charged, emotive language customarily used by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Taylor), that it is "scandalous and shocking" for Conservative Members to complain about what has happened to the rates when they were chiefly responsible for the reform of local government? But would he not further agree that it is also "scandalous and shocking" that, in the preparation of the White Paper, the possibility of the early abolition of the regional tier of local government by a Scottish Assembly was ruled out?
§ Mr. RossWe all appreciate that the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Taylor) lives in a constant aura of indignation. Long may that continue. The 438 hon. Gentleman's last question is not entirely related to this aspect. We shall be debating the White Paper, I hope, soon after we return in the new year.
§ Mr. TaylorIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.
§ 10. Miss Harvie Andersonasked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will take action to moderate the effects upon the levels of rates which will be levied on domestic ratepayers at the operation of the first full year after the reorganisation of local government.
§ Mr. William RossI am proposing an increase in the domestic element of rate support grant to 27 pence in 1976–77. The total grant proposed for 1976–77 is over £800 million. It is now up to the local authorities to do their part by halting the rise of expenditure.
§ Miss Harvie AndersonI thank the right hon. Gentleman for that encouraging reply. Will he remember that there are thousands of people who simply cannot meet the increased rate demand? Will he continue to encourage local authorities to curb their expenditure? Will the Government also take a lead in this important matter of public spending?
§ Mr. Robin F. CookWill my right hon. Friend confirm that the rate support grant per head of population is now 50 per cent. higher in Scotland than in other areas of the United Kingdom? Does not this confirm the considerable extent to which Scottish ratepayers are being assisted out of central taxation?
§ Mr. WelshWill the Secretary of State accept that local government reorganisation has literally destroyed the present rating system? What can he do to curb the monster that the Labour and Conservative Parties have created by reorganisation? For example, what could he say to the Glasgow District Council, which is apparently spending £900 to bring English primary school children to Scotland, when all they asked for was travel brochures to allow them to complete a school project? Is that what the 439 right hon. Gentleman meant when he called for "reasonable prudence" by local authorities?
§ Mr. RossI can assure the hon. Gentleman that the leader of his party did not vote against the monster of local government reorganisation. Therefore, his party must accept its responsibility. The financing of local government has concerned me for a long time. The previous Conservative Government produced a Green Paper in 1971 on the radical reform of local government finance. It came to nothing. [Interruption.] I wish that the hon. Member for Dundee, East (Mr. Wilson) would give a much better lead in behaviour to his hon. Friends. We have established the Layfield Committee, and we should await the findings of that Committee about financial changes.
§ Mr. Gordon WilsonOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I prefer to hear points of order at the end of Question Time.