HC Deb 09 December 1975 vol 902 cc210-1
3. Mr. Cryer

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when she next expects to meet the Supplementary Benefits Commission.

Mr. O'Malley

My right hon. Friend and I last met the Supplementary Benefits Commission on 20th November 1974, and we shall meet it as often as is useful and desirable in the future. In addition, my right hon. Friend will be meeting the Chairman at about two-monthly intervals.

Mr. Cryer

Will my right hon. Friend ensure, at that meeting, that the Chairman or the full SBC issues a circular making clear to all applicants what their rights are? The single-parent family groups, such as the Gingerbread Group, make constant complaints about the difficulty of obtaining information about the rights of needy people. Perhaps my right hon. Friend would consider the need for the SBC itself, because it would increase parliamentary control if the Minister and not some commission had total control of these matters so that hon. Members could bring their complaints directly to him and not be put off to the SBC.

Mr. O'Malley

I appreciate the first point that my hon. Friend makes. The new Chairman of the SBC has, I believe, already approached the chairmen of the subject groups on both sides of the House, and I am sure that he would be pleased to discuss this and any related matters at such a meeting.

On the second matter raised by my hon. Friend, it is the case, under the Social Security Act 1966 that the SBC has the rôle which was set down in that Act, but I also understand the arguments which can be put forward for the type of arrangement that my hon. Friend suggests.

Mr. Kenneth Clarke

When the right hon. Gentleman next meets the Supplementary Benefits Commission, could he discuss with it, perhaps in a slightly calmer manner, the abuse of the system and investigations into it, since he has just acknowledged the public concern that exists about it? Does he agree that the special investigators employed at the moment are quite effective, within their limited means of detection, and that they have discovered, in the local drives which the Conservative Government began, that more than 40 per cent. of suspicious cases which they investigate are cases of overpayment? As the investigators pay for themselves, will not the Minister consider doubling the present number of 320 or so, to 600, as a straightforward way of reassuring the public that there is a stepping up in the investigation of cases of abuse?

Mr. O'Malley

I am always calm with the hon. Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), unless he says something particularly silly. At present there is a total of 4,000 staff in the DHSS whose job it is to protect the taxpayers' money. There are 381 special investigators who, during the course of 1974, investigated 27,000 cases. This Government are as keen as any Government to counter abuse by every practicable means. I shall consider what the hon. Gentleman said about the number of special investigators, but he will realise that his suggestion has public expenditure implications which are important at the moment.