§ Q3. Mr. Jasper Moreasked the Prime Minister if he will dismiss the Minister of State for the Civil Service Department.
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir.
§ Mr. MoreWill the Prime Minister tell us what the present position is in respect of personal advisers appointed by or to Ministers in his Government from outside the ranks of the Civil Service? How many such appointments have been made since the present Government took office? Have any been made from those people previously associated with the National Union of Students? What justification is there for saddling the public purse with expenditure in excess of £200,000 annually in aid of an exercise which, patently, is providing "jobs for the boys"?
§ The Prime MinisterWe are follow-by the rules which were recommended by the Fulton Report on the Civil Service. That was exactly what was done by the last Conservative Government on these matters. I do not remember the hon. Member asking questions about these matters then. He would do better to table Questions on a particular appointment by a particular Minister to the Minister concerned.
§ Mr. WrigglesworthIs my right hon. Friend aware of the deep concern in the Civil Service over the deliberate campaign of misrepresentation and distortion that has been levelled at it in recent weeks? Is he further aware that the proportion of civil servants per million of the population is half the figure in Germany? Does he realise that the average level of Civil Service pensions, which has been so much under attack, is £17.50 a week, as opposed to some of the way-out figures quoted by Conservative Members?
§ The Prime MinisterMy hon. Friend has put a perfectly fair question. As he said, there is a campaign at present about this issue. Manpower in the Civil Service, like Government expenditure, follows 1928 policy decisions taken by this House. Those who say that they want to cut either expenditure or manpower should have the courtesy to tell the House what they would cut.
§ Mr. PardoeWill the Prime Minister confirm that the Minister referred to in the Question is responsible for an organisation called the Civil Service Pay Research Unit, and that that alone is sufficient reason for his instant dismissal? Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that this unit is responsible for the grotesque and indecent increases in Civil Service pay over the last few years, and will he ensure that the reports of this extraordinary body are made available for hon. Members, so that they may see how it reaches its disgraceful conclusions?
§ The Prime MinisterThe appointment of this unit goes back to the Report of the Royal Commission in the 1950s. It has existed under successive Governments, and it is, I believe, of great value. It does a dedicated job. It tries to establish comparability with workers in private employment, so that civil servants are, broadly, paid the same rate for doing the same job. Over all these years the public service has usually lagged behind private industry. That is what the Priestley Commission was dealing with.
On pensions, I do not know whether the hon. Member raised this question at the time they were introduced. I do not remember his doing so.