NATO (Expenditure) (Hansard, 15 April 1975)

§ 3. Mr. Brotherton
asked the Secretary of State for Defence what is the expenditure on defence in all NATO countries expressed as a percentage of the gross national product and on a per capita basis.

§ Mr. Mason
I refer the hon. Member to the table at page 3 of the 1975 Statement on the Defence Estimates.

§ Mr. Brotherton
Do not these figures show that only the Governments of Portugal, Greece, Turkey and Italy spend markedly more on defence on a per capita basis than does the United Kingdom? Does not this make nonsense of the statement in the defence review that the burden of defence expenditure should be brought more into line with that of our major allies in Europe? Is not the real reason for the cuts in defence that the Government require a sop, albeit an unsatisfactory one, for their hon. Friends below the Gangway?

§ Mr. Mason
No, Sir. We decided, and our NATO allies appreciated, that if we were to look at defence expenditure per nation within NATO we should look at the NATO statistics, which show defence expenditure as a percentage of the gross national product. On that basis, in 1974 the percentage for the United Kingdom was 5.8, for France it was 3.8 per cent. and for Germany it was 4.1 per cent. The hon. Gentleman must realise that we cannot draw true comparisons on a per capita basis because we maintain a professional army and air force, whereas the forces of most of the countries he mentioned contain conscripts. Therefore, the parallel is not exact.

§ Mr. Younger
Surely the right hon. Gentleman will agree that the qualification he has just made about the effect of different systems of operating forces is equally valid for the GNP. Does it not make nonsense of that also?

§ Mr. Mason
No, Sir, because I prefaced my reply by saying that it is recognised within NATO that we should use the NATO definitions of expenditure on defence, and it was from the NATO tables that we started our examination.

§ Mr. Goodhew
If the right hon. Gentleman wishes to ensure the security of the nation, would he not do better to apply his mind to comparisons with the expenditure of our potential enemies rather than our allies?

§ Mr. Mason
Of course, it is always necessary to do that. But Great Britain belongs to an alliance. Therefore, we are looking at the collective defence expenditure and efforts of the alliance compared with those of potential enemies.