HC Deb 28 November 1974 vol 882 cc611-3
11. Mr. Cryer

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he is reviewing his policy of internment; and if he will make a statement.

14. Mrs. Colquhoun

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will now take steps to end internment without trial in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Orme

There is no change in Government policy, which is to end detention as soon as the security situation permits. My right hon. Friend will give due weight to any recommendations which Lord Gardiner's committee may make on this matter.

Mr. Cryer

Will my right hon. Friend tell the House whether he intends to renew the present emergency legislation when it expires in December? Will he make it absolutely clear to all parties in Northern Ireland that a peaceful political solution is required as a matter of urgency and that the people of this country will not continue indefinitely to tolerate the military and economic burden without such a peaceful solution being achieved?

Mr. Orme

With regard to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I certainly endorse what he said. The Government are striving for a political solution. We have said time and time again that there can be no military solution to the problem. There must be a political solution, and it depends on both communities to create a position in which this can be achieved.

With regard to the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, the Government will have to renew the emergency powers in the relatively near future, pending Lord Gardiner's report, but we shall not be in a position to implement any of the recommendations that the Government accept from Lord Gardiner prior to the expiration of the emergency powers, and therefore they will have to be renewed.

Mrs. Colquhoun

Does my right hon. Friend now accept that the first step towards a peaceful solution in Northern Ireland will be the ending of internment without trial? Does he further accept that the repressive legislation that is to come before the House today is a direct result of the abysmal failure of this Government and previous Governments to seek a political solution to the Northern Ireland problem?

Mr. Orme

I say to my hon. Friend that nobody wants to see the Government get rid of detention more than I do. But we must address this question to those people who are at present perpetrating violence not only in Northern Ireland but in the rest of the United Kingdom. These people know very well that the Government want to end detention. We are committed to this policy, but in our opinion some of these people want us to maintain detention for their own odd political point of view and their own political advancement, whatever that may be. I assure my hon. Friend that the Government do not want to see the detention powers remain on the statute book a day longer than is necessary.

Mr. Evelyn King

In the present mood of the British people, would not the right hon. Gentleman do well to give the House an unequivocal assurance that if he has any well-founded suspicion of a terrorist being about to operate and murder he will continue without compunction, scruple and delay to intern immediately?

Mr. Orme

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government have powers to deal with the situation which appertains in Northern Ireland. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary will be dealing later today with this situation in regard to the rest of the United Kingdom. We believe that the powers that we have are adequate in regard to Northern Ireland.

Mr. Beith

Will the right hon. Gentleman note that although the difficulties regarding an immediate end to internment are well understood, it remains a propaganda weapon in the hands of the IRA in the Roman Catholic community? It is no use looking to the IRA to take the initiative in scaling down violence on which the ending of internment depends, because it does not see it as being in its interests to do so.

Mr. Orme

I take the hon. Gentleman's point. It is a valuable and important one. When the Government look at the issue of violence—at the moment we have been dealing with the Provisional IRA—they see that violence also comes from certain sections of the para-military force on the Protestant side. Therefore, the Government and the security forces are at times in a difficult situation. We understand the propaganda weapon. As I have already stated this afternoon, we want to get rid of internment as soon as practicable. The Gardiner Committee is examining the point which the hon. Gentleman made.