HC Deb 20 November 1974 vol 881 cc1310-2
16. Mr. Sillars

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what measures he intends to introduce to improve public transport, especially in rural areas.

Mr. Millan

While Government assistance continues to be available to public transport operators, I think that local needs should be considered locally, and from next May, the new regional and islands councils will have a duty to develop, in consultation with transport operators, policies which will promote the provision of a co-ordinated efficient system of public passenger transport in their area.

Mr. Sillars

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the Labour manifesto contained a commitment to improve public transport, especially in rural areas? Does he agree that following the increases in VAT on petrol this matter has become most urgent because working families on low incomes in country areas depend very heavily indeed on their own transport? Will he also agree that if we are to ration energy and mobility, as we are doing with petrol, it is better to do so on a coupon system than under a pricing system?

Mr. Millan

The latter remarks of my hon. Friend go rather beyond the original Question. These matters have already been discussed in the Budget debate and will also be discussed later. There is already legislative provision in the 1968 Act for help to be given to rural bus services by local authorities, and that help is subject to Government grant. The main responsibility must be with local authorities to identify local needs, so that assistance may be made available. There is nothing to prevent their taking that action at present.

Mr. David Steel

Will the Minister recognise that the terms of the 1968 Transport Act are inadequate to deal with a confused situation in which, on the one hand, local authorities are required to give permission for local bus services and, on the other, there is the question of private bus operators and also the subject of the imposition of VAT on the private car? Government initiative should be taken to follow up the excellent sentiments contained in the Minister's main answer. Does he not agree that the subject needs fresh legislation?

Mr. Millan

If the hon. Gentleman or anyone else can tell us what should be in the fresh legislation, we shall consider it.

Sir John Gilmour

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that it might be better for the Government to take steps to try to write off a large number of buses which are far too large for rural roads, so that, in the interests of saving petrol, rural services were taken over by 14-seater buses instead of having enormous vehicles going round on rural roads with no passengers at all?

Mr. Millan

That is an interesting suggestion, but it is not a matter specifically for Government initiative. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that there are bus grants at the moment.

Mr. Watt

What steps is the hon. Gentleman considering taking to ensure that rural deliveries are allowed to continue? The present high cost of petrol means that many delivery vans are being taken off the road.

Mr. Millan

The increase in VAT does not apply to commercial vehicles.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will acknowledge that the increase in VAT has made this question very much more topical than ever before. Although, when we get the new larger local authorities, I hope that we shall get a more unified system of subsidy for transport services, there are problems at the moment in rural areas, where the existing local authorities cannot agree about the subsidies to be paid. During the period between now and the reorganisation of local government there will be genuine difficulties where agreement cannot be reached about subsidy, and people will suffer. Will the hon. Gentleman look at the immediate problem and not just bear in mind the longer-term situation?

Mr. Millan

The hon. Gentleman suggests that some local authorities cannot agree on paying subsidies, and that a number are reluctant to pay any at all. The legislative provision is there. The primary responsibility must be that of the local authorities. But Government assistance is available. If there are specific problems in specific areas, obviously I shall be willing to do all that I can to see that they are solved.