§ 2. Mr. Scott-Hopkinsasked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many fat cattle and how many store cattle have been imported into the United Kingdom from Eire since 1st August 1974.
§ The Minister of State for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. E. S. Bishop)Imports of Irish Republic cattle into the United Kingdom during the months of August to September were as follows:
| Fats | 2,288 head |
| Stores | 79,050 head |
§ No later official figures are available, but unofficial estimates indicate that sendings during October showed some decline.
§ Mr. Scott-HopkinsDoes the Minister of State agree that this situation cannot be allowed to continue? It is making our beef farmers' situation infinitely worse. Does he not agree that something must be done immediately by his right hon. Friend to stop the importation of fat cattle into this country and the paying out of the slaughter premium to them? There should be a 60-day waiting period. Does he not also agree that he should immediately start negotiations with the Irish Minister to cut down the amount of imports of stores which are using up the fodder which is in short supply? It must be done now, not next week.
§ Mr. BishopWe recognise the concern. The main point about the import of Irish cattle is that this it not expressly directed at the Irish situation; it is a matter of national concern. I remind the hon. Gentleman that it was his Government who got rid of the domiciliary period in scrapping the fatstock guarantee scheme, which not only got rid of the assurances the farmers now seek, but took away the domiciliary period which they are now asking to be returned. I remind the hon. Gentleman also of the assurances given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales on 31st October when he said that 1221 he would see that the matter was looked into. This is being done as urgently as possible.
§ Mr. FittI claim absolutely no knowledge of agriculture, but is not it a fact that the cattle from Ireland, both from North and South—I am glad to see there is no discrimination—have already been bought by Welsh, Scots and English farmers, and this is discrimination not against Irish cattle but against people living in this part of the United Kingdom?
§ Mr. BishopI wish the hon. Gentleman's candour about his knowledge of the industry was matched by similar candour on the part of some members of the Opposition. The point to be made is that the import of cattle from the Republic is carried out under the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement, and the number coming in is a small percentage of what could come in if the agreement were observed. The other factor is that imports are in line with traditional levels but higher than last year's very low figures. They represent about 5 per cent. of the current United Kingdom slaughterings.
With regard to trying to restrict this cattle trade, I have pointed out the obligations we have under the agreement which we are honouring. Further to that, were we to take steps recommended by some Conservative Members we should be in breach of the treaty obligations which were negotiated, and accepted by them, and such unilateral action would be unjustified.
§ Mr. Maxwell-HyslopIs the hon. Gentleman aware that the Common Market rules for Italy are the same as they are for Britain, and that what the Italians can do under treaty we can do? We ask him to do the same for Britain as the Italians have done for Italy. If that involves denouncing the Anglo-Irish treaty, let it be done.
§ Mr. BishopIt is rather much for the hon. Gentleman to side with those discussing the taking of unilateral action when he rightly deplores some of the unilateral action which has taken place this week in the Welsh ports. The fact remains that because we are in the Common Market we can only renegotiate the changes which he seeks, and with the consent of our partners.
§ Mr. DuffyThe Minister is right to remind the House that the average weekly shipment from the Irish Republic is only half the Irish entitlement under the agreement and is only 5 per cent. of the average British weekly slaughter total, but is he aware that, small though the Irish shipments are, they help to sustain a demand in Southern Ireland for British goods that makes that market Britain's fourth largest export market?
§ Mr. BishopI am grateful to my hon. Friend for his comments. The number of cattle that could be imported from Ireland under the agreement is more than 600,000 and the number actually imported is a small proportion of that. I also remind the House that this shows that the problems we face with our beef are not confined to us alone, because in wanting to export the cattle in this way the Irish are doing something to benefit their market. Overall, this shows the failure of intervention not only in Ireland but elsewhere.
§ Mr. JoplingAlthough it is clear that the Irish import situation has contributed to the collapse of the beef market, will the Minister of State now answer the question that his right hon. Friend failed to answer? Was it with the authority of his right hon. Friend that his divisional officer in Cardiff, Mr. Jameson, told farmers that they would have seriously to consider whether they sold stores at £4 a hundredweight now? We have not had an answer. We must know whether that statement was made with the authority of the Minister.
§ Mr. BishopI think the point is that Government policy is usually expressed by the Ministers, but, on the point made by the hon. Gentleman, we shall look into the situation.
§ Mr. Scott-HopkinsIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I shall seek leave to raise the matter at the earliest moment on the Adjournment.
§ 8. Mr. Hal Millerasked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he intends to take any steps to limit the imports of live Irish cattle.
§ Mr. BishopWe are considering the representations that were made on this subject during the debate on 31st October.
§ Mr. MillerWill the Minister please understand that although farmers accept that there is a traditional trade in the import of Irish cattle they cannot understand and cannot accept the exchange of party politics across the Floor of the House? They wish for some action now. If action cannot be taken under the terms of our obligations to limit the imports, will the Minister consider some action to withdraw from such imports the subsidies that are threatening the price structure? Will he please understand that even 5 per cent. of imports at a lower price can have a grave effect on the market?
§ Mr. BishopRegarding the eligibility for the beef premium, the hon. Gentleman should bear in mind that when the beef premium scheme was introduced it was agreed that the beef premium would be paid on all eligible cattle imported from the Republic. In the debate to which I referred a few Questions ago, my right hon. Friend the Minister undertook to look at the matter urgently.
§ Rev. Ian PaisleyDoes the Minister not agree that it is his duty to look after the interests of the beef producers of the United Kingdom and not be so anxious to look after the beef producers of the Republic of Ireland? Does he not agree with me that, further to the statement made by the hon. Member for Belfast, West (Mr. Fitt), the beef producers of the United Kingdom are being discriminated against, in that producers from the Republic are receiving more money for their cattle than those who produce them in the United Kingdom?
§ Mr. BishopI am not aware of the discrimination to which the hon. Member refers, but I am aware that this Government have done an enormous amount to help beef producers. The total amount given to beef producers since March of this year is £150 million. I need hardly refer to the predictions made by my right hon. Friend earlier in this period.
§ Mr. RidleyIf, because of alleged cruelty, it is decided to ban the export of live cattle from this country, why is it not decided to ban the import of live cattle into this country for the same reason?
§ Mr. Bishoprose—
§ Mr. BishopThat is precisely why I am at the Box. My right hon. Friend has given assurances about the O'Brien Report regarding the export of cattle, which I recognise has some significance in the present system of the beef market. At the same time, with regard to the possibility of banning imports, it could be a contravention of the treaty to which hon. Members committed us.
§ Mr. William HamiltonIs my hon. Friend aware that the British housewife would very much welcome the chance to eat Catholic beef and Catholic cattle rather than listen to the nonsense from Protestant bulls?
§ Mr. BishopI am aware that the British housewife has catholic tastes. I am pleased to hear the reference to the housewife and the consumer, as well as the problems of the producer.
§ Mr. EmeryDo the Minister of State and the Secretary of State realise that what worries so many farmers and many Members of the House is the apparent lack of sympathy and understanding of the beef problem by the Ministers and the officials? This has been apparent in the answers that we have received today. In order to overcome the major objection to the importation of Irish fat cattle when the British producer is on such a low return, will the Minister consider negotiating with the Irish Government for some limitation of this importation at the moment?
§ Mr. BishopI think the hon. Member will recognise that the problem goes more deeply than that. There are, of course, the problems of the fodder situation, which is being looked at. There are also the problems of the domiciliary period, which, as I have said, we are examining urgently—and the problems of the O'Brien Report are also receiving urgent attention.
As my right hon. Friend said earlier, we are looking for a new beef régime which is being negotiated urgently. Therefore, not only do people get sympathy; they also get action from this Government.
§ Mr. BeithOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Would it be in order for you to encourage the Minister of State to 1225 follow the practice of his right hon. Friends in grouping identical questions?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is not a matter for me.