§ Q11. Mr. Skinnerasked the Prime Minister when he has any plans to meet the CBI and the TUC.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman and my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave on 19th March to the hon. Member for Cornwall, North (Mr. Pardoe).—[Vol. 870, c. 74.]
§ Mr. RostIs the promise by Mr. Hugh Scanlon, of the engineers' union, to take industrial action in pursuit of a pay claim well in excess of phase 3 the first instalment of a new social contract?
§ The Prime MinisterThe hon. Gentleman's supplementary question was predictable and predicted. He will have seen that Mr. Scanlon yesterday complained that the reporting of what he had said had been distorted and sensationalised. We are talking now about discussions with the TUC and the CBI. Perhaps we may begin to turn our backs on the election period, when speeches by individual trade unionists were whipped up out of all relation to the importance of those statements, and concentrate on talks with the TUC and the CBI.
§ Mr. SkinnerWhen my right hon. Friend meets the CBI, will he be kindly in all his references to the Leader of the Opposition, in view of the great assistance that he is currently giving to the Government?
§ The Prime MinisterI may be slow in my response, but I cannot see what that supplementary question has to do—even if I understood what it meant—with meetings with the CBI.
§ Mr. BidwellWill my right hon. Friend agree that a high-wage economy is totally desirable, and that he could well pay rapt attention to any proposals that come from the TUC in this regard, both now and when he eventually returns with the big Labour majority that he requires?
§ The Prime MinisterHigher real wages, yes, Sir.
§ Mr. HeathThe Prime Minister will be aware that his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment has now refused to refer either the nurses' or the teachers' case to the Pay Board in its capacity of dealing with relativities. It is well known that there are others, such as the postmen, who accepted a stage 3 settlement and were excluded from the anomalies arrangements on the basis, I believe, that they would then have the option of going under the relativities procedure. Will the Prime Minister now say how these extremely important groups of nurses, teachers, postmen and others will be dealt with in order that they may have fair consideration?
§ The Prime MinisterI have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend had to say in the debate last Monday, when, I think, the right hon. Gentleman heard his speech. As regards the treatment of these cases, I shall leave it to my right hon. Friend to make clear to the right hon. Gentleman and the House exactly how they are to be handled
§ Mr. HeathThe Prime Minister will agree that this is an extremely important matter. All the Secretary of State has said so far is that he refuses to refer these matters. If the Government do not believe that the Pay Board can function satisfactorily, they have no alternative means by which to deal with these cases. In fairness to these extremely important groups, the Prime Minister ought to be 1327 able to say what the Government propose to do.
§ The Prime MinisterI agree with the right hon. Gentleman about their importance, and for that reason I shall not quote back at him what he used to say to me, that we cannot discuss—as he said on the miners' case—individual claims across the Floor of the House. I agree that they are extremely important, and that is why they are being studied with great care. An answer will be given to the right hon. Gentleman.
§ Mr. DalyellAt this welcome meeting with the Scottish TUC, will the Prime Minister bear in mind the deeply unsatisfactory nature of the redundancy terms offered to those whose chances of getting a similar job in Glasgow and elsewhere in central Scotland are extremely remote?
§ The Prime MinisterApart from the serious factor of the announced closure of these newspapers and the heavy unemployment, I believe that in the minds of all hon. Members is the deep anxiety that, so far, the employers—for reasons which, I think, appear good to them—have been unable to make any offer on redundancies comparable with what is normally expected in that industry.
Sir Harmar NichollsWill the Prime Minister bear in mind that in terms of the need to keep our creditworthiness in the world high because of the borrowings we have to make, it is extremely important that his Government should give the impression of using the machinery that is there until something better has been put in its place? Does he not agree that to leave it in a position of limbo, as his hazy announcement a minute or two ago seemed to leave it, can only damage the country and its creditworthiness?
§ The Prime MinisterOn the contrary, my right hon. Friend explained the position so clearly last Monday that it met with the full satisfaction of the Opposition, to the point where they withdrew their amendment and, indeed, went further and claimed credit for his statement, which had been drafted the week before.
§ Mr. ThorpeDoes the Prime Minister not agree that it will be a somewhat strange situation if the Leader of the Opposition has now found a list of cases 1328 which he thinks ought to be referred to the Pay Board on relativities, as being necessary to go beyond phase 3, while the Prime Minister, for his part, finds himself unable to agree to that?
§ The Prime MinisterThe whole matter could have been resolved easily if the Royal Commission I proposed a year ago had been set up and had produced its report. Then we should have known how to handle these matters.