| Amendment made: No. 21, in page 6, line 15, leave out subsection (3) and insert— |
| "(3) Without prejudice to subsection (2) above, where in respect of a conviction a person was conditionally discharged or placed on probation and after the end of the rehabilitation period applicable to the conviction in accordance with subsection (1) or (2) above he is dealt with, in consequence of a breach of conditional discharge or probation, for the offence for which the order for conditional discharge or probation order was made, then, if the rehabilitation period applicable to the conviction in accordance with subsection (2) above (taking into account any sentence imposed when he is so dealt with) ends later than the rehabilitation period previously applicable to the conviction, he shall be treated for the purposes of this Act as never having become a rehabilitated person in respect of that conviction, and the conviction shall for those purposes be treated as never having become spent, in relation to any period falling before the end of the new rehabilitation period.".—[Mr. Robert Hughes.] |
§ The Deputy Speaker (Mr. George Thomas)The next amendment is No. 36.
§ Mr. Hal MillerOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am sorry that in my ignorance I remained seated for too long. I understood that the Minister was called on Amendment No 21 but that Amendments Nos. (a) and (b) were not called. I wanted to move them.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerI thought that those matters should have been discussed with Amendment No. 11. I am sorry the hon. Member was misled. We are now on Amendment No. 36.
§ Mr. Alexander W. LyonIf I may assist the hon. Gentleman—
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerI think that assistance has already been given.
§ Mr. LyonFurther to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. If the hon. Gentleman wishes formally to move those amendments, they are matters of drafting and I should be prepared to accept them.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerI am sorry, but the Chair has already put that amendment. Perhaps it can be put right somewhere else.
§ Mr. Alexander W. LyonI beg to move Amendment No. 36, in page 6, line 39, leave out subsection (5) and insert—
(5) Where the rehabilitation period applicable to a conviction is the rehabilitation period applicable in accordance with section 3(7B) above to an order imposing on a person any disqualification, disability, prohibition or other penalty, the rehabilitation period applicable to 1976 another conviction shall not by virtue of subsection (4) above be extended by reference to that period; but if any other sentence is imposed in respect of the first-mentioned conviction for which a rehabilitation period is prescribed by any other provisions of section 3 above, the rehabilitation period applicable to another conviction shall, where appropriate, be extended under subsection (4) above by reference to the rehabilitation period applicable in accordance with that section to that sentence or, where more than one such sentence is imposed, by reference to the longer or longest of the periods so applicable to those sentences, as if the period in question were the rehabilitation period applicable to the first-mentioned conviction.This amendment is a late amendment. It arose at the last minute because of a lacuna in the Bill. It has been tabled to deal with the situation.The effect of the amendment is to confine the impeding action of a subsequent sentence on a previous one in the course of becoming spent to the sentence proper and not to any disqualification period which extends it.
Section 3(7B) provides that the rehabilitation period for a sentence with a disqualification ordered to be attached is the period of disqualification, if that is the longer. If a man is fined and disqualified from driving for 10 years, the rehabilitation period will be 10 years. But the delaying effect on any outstanding convictions will, assuming the offence is indictable, be the five-year period appropriate to the fine. If this amendment were not made, there would be the risk of a lifelong disqualification—for example, for motoring, preventing any previous conviction becoming spent. We had to take 1977 this somewhat heavy-handed way of dealing with a difficulty which will arise in a few cases but will be of considerable importance in those cases.
§ Mr. WeitzmanWas it not beyond the wit of the parliamentary draftsmen to put this clause in much simpler form'? It is almost incomprehensible.
§ Mr. LyonWe have had a discussion about these matters before and I have the greatest sympathy with my hon. and learned Friend. I am glad that he has reiterated the point, and I hope the parliamentary draftsman takes note of it. However, I am assured that it is impossible to deal with the matter in the simple kind of language to which my hon. and learned Friend and I are accustomed in our pleadings. The truth is that it depends on a different kind of tradition. I hope that this continual dripping on the stone will lead to a change in the situation. I am sure this should happen.
§ Amendment agreed to.
Mr. HughesI beg to move Amendment No. 23, in page 6, line 43, leave out subsection (6) and insert:
'(6) Subject to subsection (7) below, for the purposes of subsection (4)(a) above there shall be disregarded—
- (a) any conviction in England and Wales of an offence which is not triable on indictment;
- (b) any conviction in Scotland of an offence which is not excluded from the jurisdiction of inferior courts of summary jurisdiction by virtue of section 4 of the Summary Jurisdiction (Scotland) Act 1954 (certain crimes not to be tried in inferior courts of summary jurisdiction); and
- (c) any conviction by or before a court outside Great Britain of an offence which, if the conduct constituting it had taken place in England and Wales, would not have constituted an offence, or would have constituted an offence not triable on indictment, or, if it had taken place in Scotland, would have constituted an offence not excluded as aforesaid from the jurisdiction of an inferior court of summary jurisdiction.
(7) Notwithstanding subsection (6) above, a conviction in service, disciplinary proceedings of an offence consisting in the commission of a civil offence shall not be disregarded for the purposes of subsection (4)(a) above if the civil offence in question is triable on indictment.'
§ The effect of this amendment is to clarify in its application to Scotland Clause 4(6) concerning offences which can be disregarded during the rehabilitation period applicable to a conviction. 1978 The words "triable on indictment" do not mean the same in Scotland as they do in England and Wales, and the words inserted by the amendment have the effect of making the convictions which can be disregarded during the rehabilitation period those for offences which come within the jurisdiction of inferior summary courts in Scotland.
§ Amendment agreed to.