HC Deb 11 June 1974 vol 874 cc1400-2
16. Mr. Molloy

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will make a further statement in relation to nurses' pay.

Mr. Foot

I explained to the House on 6th May that I was able under the existing legislation to apply my powers of consent in respect of the pay increases sought for nurses, teachers and Post Office workers only to certain special problems where there were exceptional circumstances. I have never had any doubt, however, that nurses and these other two groups have suffered particularly badly under the policies pursued by the last Government; and now that we can look forward to seeking parliamentary approval to abolish the statutory pay controls as soon as possible in July after the Prices Bill is enacted, the Government have thought it right to set in train action to give them a remedy as quickly as possible after the statutory controls have gone. On this basis the Government have provided for independent inquiries to be held into the pay not only of nurses but also of teachers and have agreed that the Post Office should seek to remedy the position of some of its staff in negotiation with the unions concerned.

We believe that this action to deal with these particularly acute problems resulting from the previous Government's policies is in the interests of a smooth transition to sensible voluntary collective bargaining. But if we are to achieve that transition we must ask that others accept the justice of the claims of nurses and these other two groups for this redress and hold themselves to the agreements they have already reached.

Mr. Molloy

I thank my right hon. Friend for that neat and comprehensive statement, which will give justifiable confidence to the groups of workers he has mentioned. May I put to him the fact that yesterday a large number of nurses, organised by their trade union, the Confederation of Health Service Employees, with which I have associations, lobbied the House and were able to make it clear that the nurses more than almost any other group have suffered enormously— [HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] It is regrettable that Conservative Members should show such intolerance whenever the nurses are mentioned.

Mr. Speaker

Order. That is an abuse of the supplementary question system. The hon. Gentleman must ask a brief supplementary question.

Mr. Molloy

With great respect, Mr. Speaker, if you had been standing where I am trying to put my Question, you would have heard quite a lot of other abuse. I was going to say to my right hon. Friend—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman should be one of the last hon. Members to object to sedentary interruptions.

Mr. Molloy

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in their campaign the nurses are ever mindful of the patients they serve and they firmly believe that they will obtain justice under the present Government? Is he also aware—

Mr. Speaker

Order. We have had enough now.

Mr. Foot

I am most grateful to my hon. Friend for his questions, and I hope he will continue to put them, from whatever position he may select. We appreciate that the nurses have a strong case. That is why the Government have gone very far to meet what they propose. Some of the organisations representing nurses, or one of them at least, are still pressing the claim for an interim payment. I understand the reason why they put that case, but there are great difficulties for the Government in agreeing to interim payments, even for such an excellent case as that of the nurses, because of the possible effects in many other sectors. I believe, however, that when the Government decided to backdate the agreement that was to be the result of the review, they were going very far to meet the just claims that the nurses are making.

Mr. Whitelaw

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the remarks of his hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Molloy) about the Opposition's attitude on nurses' pay are totally unjustified? Does he also agree that, with the arrangements that have been made for an inquiry and the backdating, it would be most reasonable and in the interests of the whole nation that the industrial action of COHSE should be called off? We in the Opposition would strongly support that, as we also strongly support the need for a good deal for the nurses.

Mr. Foot

I do not think I should intervene in the quarrel between the right hon. Gentleman and my hon. Friend.

Mr. Whitelaw

Quarrel?

Mr. Foot

It was an argument. The right hon. Gentleman was asking for my protection, and I do not see why I should give it. But I agree with the right hon. Gentleman and with what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services has already said on the subject. In view of what the Government have done, I think it is much more sensible that the industrial action should be called off. I believe that in a few weeks' time everyone will recognise that the Government, in preparation for the changeover from the compulsory system to the voluntary system, have taken reasonable steps to help not only the nurses but the teachers and the Post Office workers.