WINTER LETTINGS

HC Deb 30 July 1974 vol 878 cc627-38

'Where the landlord lets accommodation between 1st October and 1st May in any year being accommodation for holiday letting during the period between 1st May and 1st October and at the time of the letting the tenant is notified in writing that the landlord would require possession at the termination of the letting for the purpose of holiday letting such tenancy shall not come within the provisions of this Act'.—[Mr. Rees-Davies.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Mr. Rees-Davies

I beg to move, that the clause be read a Second time.

This is an important matter for the seaside resorts and any other parts of the country which engage in substantial holiday letting in the summer months. When the Bill was first published it sought to exclude holiday lettings, but there was no provision about the important question of the winter months. Now, as a result of the amendments made in another place and in Committee, we have a new clause which goes some way towards helping the situation over winter lettings.

The clause sets the position out clearly and far better than amendments which have already been discussed. In cases where the landlord lets accommodation between 1st October and 1st May in any year—the out-of-season period—it being accommodation for holiday letting during the period between 1st May and 1st October, and at the time of the letting the tenant is notified in writing that the landlord requires possession at the termination of the winter letting for the purpose of holiday letting, such tenancy shall not come within the provisions of the Act.

I should like to explain the important situation in constituencies such as mine and the whole of the south coast. Indeed, all the way round the coast there is the same situation. Hardly any of us needs the Bill, or any part of it. We might support certain parts of it in stress areas for the sake of others in the cities, but for us it is of little or no use, and can be extremely harmful.

In my constituency and many others there is a large and increasing amount of accommodation for holiday letting, pretty well from 1st May to the end of September. Apart from hotels and boarding houses, which do not come under the Bill, it comprises summer flatlets and sometimes parts of houses in which the owner-occupier lives. More often than not the owners have two or three houses and live in part of one. Purpose-built holiday flatlets are very much on the increase. They are specifically designed for the new market of the travelling tourist who wants to stay for a week or a fortnight, but seldom longer.

It is true that holiday lettings are exempted from the operation of the Bill during those periods and can continue to be let freely, but the owners want to be able to let them in the winter months, and we want the accommodation to be used then. In some instances the accommodation can be let in the winter for a diverse range of uses at much reduced rents. It is let, for example, to people who come here to study English. In the Isle of Thanet we have quite a large number of schools which teach foreigners English. Much of the accommodation is let to hon. Members, perhaps when they attend their party conferences. When they attend the Labour Party conference at Margate they do not necessarily stay in hotels, but may stay in holiday flatlets.

Mr. Arthur Lewis

Our party is so enormous now that we could never exist in Margate. We can find only one place big enough for our conferences.

Mr. Rees-Davies

The hon. Gentleman does not need to worry, because after the next General Election the Labour Party will be able to be contained within Margate quite easily.

I should like to give the example of a Mr. Edwards, who has a number of purpose-built flatlet blocks—30 to 40 in three blocks. In the winter he lets them to various classes of people. Many nurses who work in Thanet stay at low rentals in the accommodation in the winter and go back to their hospital accommodation in the summer. Professional people, people working in the colleges in the area, and so on, also take up the accommodation. Mr. Edwards also accommodates a number of foreigners in the winter.

What we want to be absolutely sure of is that anyone who wants to go in for holiday lettings in the summer will not find himself, as a result of doing a winter let, deprived of the opportunity to do so. The problem is separate from the student problem, with which we shall deal later. We want to be sure that we shall not find ourselves divested of this class of accommodation through any fault of this measure. Of course, it has been substantially amended. An example is Case 10B in Clause 3. That is an amendment which was pressed upon the Government and accepted by them. It refers to the case Where the dwelling-house is let under a tenancy for a term of years certain not exceeding 8 months …". That is a fixed period, which would cover my point, because eight months would extend from October to May. Case 10B continues: not later than the relevant date the landlord gave notice in writing to the tenant that possession might be recovered under this Case …". That would be acceptable subject to the Minister indicating what he means by the words "relevant date" so that we understand it. Then we come to the difficult part—namely: and the dwelling-house was, at some time within the period of 12 months ending on the relevant date, occupied under a right to occupy it for a holiday. 10.15 p.m.

As I understand it, that is the past. We do not want the past. We want to ensure that if in future a person engages in holiday lettings in the summer he will be free to let the property during the winter months. Therefore, Case 10B does not go as far as we would wish so as to cover the position that we need in the seaside resorts and in the areas in which holiday lettings regularly take place. Case 10B continues: a tenancy shall be treated as being for a term of years certain notwithstanding that it is liable to determination by re-entry or on the happening of any event other than the giving of notice by the landlord to determine the term. In a sentence that covers the position when the period is not, for example, six or eight months but a lesser period.

It seems that the new clause—this is why it was tabled—is simpler and, I venture to submit, better than the amendments which have so far been tabled by the Government. I do not put it forward as being a perfect type of new clause. We have tabled it because we are anxious to ensure that those of us who represent important tourist areas do not find ourselves in difficulty with tourism, which is an immensely important part of Britain's industry.

There is also the human side. I can assure the Minister that there is a great deal of genuine worry by people who have invested in this type of property. Often they have done so on retirement from industrial areas. They want to feel that they will not find themselves in difficulty if they go ahead and continue with their lettings. Now is the time when they are making their arrangements for the forthcoming winter to engage in their normal lettings. It is no good coming back in October and saying, "We have made a mistake." The Government must get the matter right now.

It is a desperate pity that the Government rushed us through the Bill. They drove us into what was a record, and I was not one of the Members who wanted to achieve it. It was no pleasure to me, and it probably was not for other Members who served on the Committee, to sit 28 hours in Committee from 10.30 am one day to 1 pm the next day. The hon. Member for Edinburgh, Central (Mr. Cook) may have been worse off than I was. He kept quiet throughout the whole of the 28 hours. He was clearly ordered to do so by the Whips. I was trying to understand the confusion, the complexity and the general bad drafting of the Bill. I do not blame the parliamentary draftsmen for the absence of instructions that they received. I was on my feet during 18 or 20 debates representing several hours of debate. All the time I was trying to probe and trying to understand the complexities of this measure.

We are still not satisfied that we have reached the end of the road on this very important point. The Minister must not make a mistake, because all hell will be let loose if we find that we cannot get accommodation back for seaside resorts next spring.

Mr. Emery

The closer one gets to the South-West, the better is the winter weather. In Sidmouth and Budleigh Salterton, in my constituency, the business is mainly that of summer letting, but be-because of the good winter weather businesses are willing to let during the winter at greatly reduced rentals. The tenants are mainly elderly couples who want the more equable climate of the South-West in the winter months.

If there is a chance that the business person running holiday accomodation will be unable to regain possession for the holiday season, such property will simply not come on to the market in winter. It is the elderly who will suffer in the main. I cannot believe that the Minister wants that to happen.

Another factor brought to my notice by associations in the tourist industry is that they have co-operated with local authorities in finding winter accommodation for difficult and harsh housing cases in emergency situations. It has always been understood that on the agreed date there would be vacant possession. I know of a number of local authorities which in the last 12 months have advised tenants, because of the possibility of security of tenure, not to vacate on the agreed date. I will provide the Minister with chapter and verse of local authorities which have done this. Whatever he may say about the new clause tonight, I hope that he will say that he could not and would not support any local authority which acted in that way.

We are not talking about the ordinary stock of housing accommodation, but about part of the wherewithal of the tourist industry, which is very necessary at that time. The Government are encouraging people to take holidays in the United Kingdom rather than use foreign currency. More and more families with small children want this sort of accommodation rather than to go to a hotel, which they often cannot afford. They want to be able to provide their own catering facilities for their holiday. This sort of accommodation is greatly needed.

It would be an excellent thing for any Government and any Minister if we could use this type of accommodation to help out with the housing need in the winter. To achieve this it will be necessary to ensure that the tourist industry is able to gain possession of these dwellings for the purpose for which they were provided—that is, for the benefit of the tourist industry and the people who are running them as summer holiday lettings.

The Government have gone some way in ensuring that summer letting does not go on for ever, but they have not taken action the other way round and therefore the clause is of considerable benefit.

Sir John Eden

I fully support the case put forward by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Thanet, West (Mr. Rees-Davies) which has been illustrated in the speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Honiton (Mr. Emery). I confirm that this matter is causing growing concern in constituencies which have a substantial amount of holiday accommodation. Among those who take advantage of lower rates available during winter lettings are young couples with families who have been unable to find alternative accommodation and who are on the look out for bases from which to continue their search for suitable, permanent homes. They enter into agreements with the owners of the tourist accommodation businesses. They know before they take possession of the accommodation that it will be required, and that it has already been committed to other people from a fixed date. They know full well that their occupancy of the premises, at a privileged rate, is for a limited period, and they agree to quit at the end of this.

It is right that we should seek to ensure that provision is made in the Bill for such cases. Earlier, in reply to an observation from me, the Minister said that Case 10 B would meet this matter completely. I hope that he will underline that assurance, because it will go a considerable way towards easing the anxieties of people who have problems.

There is particular concern about the time taken to regain possession of some of this holiday accommodation. Owners of this accommodation wish to regain possession of it so as to go ahead with summer lettings—that is what they are in business for. But often it takes so many months to regain possession that the bulk, if not the entire period, of the summer letting season has gone by and the owners miss the period during which they can obtain full summer holiday letting rates.

The Minister has two points to answer. The first is on the extent to which the owner of the business is able to regain possession in the event of a man's defaulting on the agreement he has entered into with the owner. The second is the question whether there is any measure, short of the owner having to go to the county court to gain possession, which would enable him to get possession quickly so that he can take advantage of the summer letting at high rates and also honour the commitment he has made to the family or individual who has planned his summer holidays on the assumption that he would have the premises made available to him. I hope that the Minister will give sympathetic consideration to this.

10.30 p.m.

Mr. Joseph Dean (Leeds, West)

I wish to take the hon. and learned Member for Thanet, West (Mr. Rees-Davies) to task. He tried to convey the impression that the most important housing need was in areas such as his constituency. If we were to divide the country into areas of housing need and housing stress it would be seen that nearly 50 per cent. of the population which is in need does not live in areas such as the Thanet. The hon. and learned Member has grossly overstated his case.

We heard talk of sunshine areas. From my experience of housing I can say that this Bill is not designed to protect those in sunshine areas; rather it is to protect those who are in areas of great housing stress. Many people have waited a long time for such a Bill. I do not think that we should give top priority to small hoteliers and boarding-housekeepers in small resorts.

Mr. Freeson

In this aspect of housing I can think of only one kind of situation where there might be difficulties. That would arise when a person in, say, a seaside town who had not previously let any part of his accommodation decided to let it for holiday lettings. His premises might be available at some time during what we broadly call the non-holiday months, but he might feel that he would like to let them immediately for non-holiday purposes, prior to a holiday letting.

In such a case I can see that there might be difficulties. It is a marginal element. It could arise, but in practice the position will be that the majority of lettings will involve accommodation which has already been used for holiday purposes for some years. These have been the subject of most of the comments. There will be some instances when people will want to stay on too late to use the letting for hodiday purposes. The vast majority of what will be a minority of cases are likely to start lettings at the beginning of the holiday season. Where lettings are already part of the market they are covered by Case 10B, provided that the appropriate notification is given.

I am concerned to allay some of the anxieties expressed in Committee—anxieties which may have been exacerbated by those discussions. There may be a sense of anxiety among people who are not aware of the true position. The vast majority of people now coming into lettings in holiday areas—if those lettings are at the beginning of the season, and let for holiday purposes—are covered by Case 10B. Existing holiday lettings are covered. The only area in which there may be uncertainty is in the case of somebody who let, say, in December for an ordinary short-term letting but who wants that accommodation to be available for summer letting. One must seek to cover by legislation every aspect that might arise. We are doing our best effectively to cover virtually 100 per cent. of the cases that will arise.

Mr. Emery

Will the Minister make clear that the security goes with the house and not with the owner of the holiday business?

Mr. Freeson

It follows the landlord and tenant relationship and not who the landlord might or might not be at a particular point in time. This provides for the landlord, whoever it may be, to give notice in writing to the tenant, in terms of possession, under the case at the relevant date.

I was asked what was meant by relevant date "The relevant date is in Part III of Schedule 3 to the 1968 Act, as amended by paragraph 6, Schedule 1 of the Bill. That means, in the cage of a tenancy subsisting at commencement date, a date six months after commencement. In all other cases it means at the start of the tenancy. I hope that that puts the matter clearly on record, since there may have been some confusion in Committee.

I turn to the point made by the right hon. Member for Bournemouth, West (Sir J. Eden) about the need for speedy court action. I am advised—I understand this to have been the position in the past—that expedited procedures are available through the courts where the need is urgent. Where these procedures are approved and used, I am advised that a hearing is arranged, on average, 16 to 18 days from the date of application. Obviously these again will be marginal cases. It is to be expected that people will be law-abiding, both landlords and tenants, and that these circumstances will arise in only a few cases. In urgent cases—for example, in seaside situations—the average experience would be 16 to 18 days, sometimes more and sometimes less.

Mr. Rees-Davies

I have two questions. First, am I right about the relevant date? Can we tell those who have this accommodation which they wish to let this winter that they must give notice in writing within six months of the passing of this legislation?

Mr. Freeson

Yes, when there is a tenancy existing at the time that this measure comes into operation.

Mr. Rees-Davies

In other words, those who are letting at the moment—nearly all have holiday lets on now—and wish to let in the winter must give notice within six months to the winter tenants that they wish to re-occupy in the summer?

Mr. Freeson

The hon. and learned Gentleman has in mind a situation where there is an existing summer letting, and he wants to know what is needed to deal with a winter letting when there is a subsequent summer letting. In other words, we are talking about a period half-way through a summer letting with a view to a summer letting in a year's time following a winter letting. I am not altogether clear what is worrying the hon. and learned Gentleman. His question assumes that there will be switches of tenants. We are concerned to ensure that, where necessary, the tenants know when they are due to go out. If they do not comply with the agreement and with the notification which they have been given, there is the urgent procedure.

Mr. Rees-Davies

My other question goes to the heart of the clause. Case 10B has had inserted the following words: … that the dwelling was at some time within the period of 12 months ending on the relevant date occupied under a right. Why did the Minister introduce those words? Could not they be left out?

Mr. Freeson

I was about to come to that. The hon. and learned Gentleman is moving back on to the ground about which he argued at length in Committee on another amendment. He said that if at any time in the past a property had been used for holiday purposes, it would be deemed to fall within this category. We did not find that acceptable then, and we do not now. It is far too open-ended.

The new Case 10B is designed to be clear and certain in its operation. It is for that reason that its operation turns upon the question whether the dwelling was during the previous 12 months occupied for holiday purposes rather than looking forward to the landlord's intention of future letting. In the Opposition's clause, it is not clear whether the words being accommodation for holiday letting mean being accommodation normally used for holiday letting or accommodation which has been prospectively let for holiday purposes in the succeeding 1st May to 1st October period. As a third possibility, the words might mean accommodation which the landlord simply intended to let. The imprecision of the Opposition clause fortifies the Government in their view that their own provision is the better one.

10.45 p.m.

There are further differences on which I could comment. First, the clause relates specifically to lettings made between certain calendar months. In this difference it must be said that the hon. and learned Member for Thanet, West has had little regard for the encouragement of the winter sports industry in Scotland, which certainly does not flourish between 1st May and 1st October. The clause would deprive Scottish holiday landlords of any means of recovering possession under their out-of-season summer lettings. The clause also assumes a five-month holiday letting period, which may not suit in all circumstances. In the Bill we are speaking of an eight-months period.

Secondly, I suspect that the main reason for the introduction of the clause is that the hon. and learned Gentleman is trying to get away from the requirement that the accommodation must have been occupied for a holiday within the preceding 12 months. Instead, the requirement is that it must be "accommodation for letting" between certain months.

Depending on the interpretation that the court puts on these words, this might ease the problems of, for instance, the holiday landlady who is setting up for the first time—the marginal point that I made before—or the one who has taken a year or two years off from business. But I must point out that such a landlady might, even under these provisions, find it difficult to satisfy a court that the accommodation was for holiday letting and that therefore the winter tenancy was not protected.

I could make a number of other points. My main concern has been to establish as clearly as possible the position under Case 10B and to make the point that what we have put forward covers all but the most marginal possibilities. We have covered the position of holiday lettings clearly and distinctly. To introduce an open-ended position, such as the hon. and learned Gentleman put forward, as he did on a number of occasions in Committee, would be to erode the whole point of the legislation generally and to achieve little in practice for the tourist and holiday trade in the resorts to which reference has been made and about which, rightly, hon. Gentlemen seek reassurance for their constituents.

Mr. Sainsbury

I am sure that the appearance of Case 10B in the Bill, as amended, is a great reassurance to all who represent constituencies where there are holiday lettings.

I do not wish to enter into an argument with my hon. Friend the Member for Honiton (Mr. Emery) whether the weather in his constituency is better in the winter than in Hove. I am sure that the air is equally healthy in both places.

There is a genuine problem here. I am grateful to the Minister not only for Case 10B being included in the Bill, but for what he said in reply to the debate and for his assurances. I hope that they will be given as much publicity as possible in the area where these matters are of great concern.

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman recognised, although he called it pretty marginal, that where a dwelling was not previously let there might be a difficulty. This is a difficulty of which we must be aware. I accept that it does not immediately affect a large number of holiday lettings, but the potential difficulty increases the longer this legislation remains on the statute book.

Another potential source of difficulty that the Minister may care to consider arises when alterations are carried out to dwelling houses, the subject of holiday lettings, which might have the effect of changing the previous state of those dwelling houses into a new state which would be held to be not previously let because they did not exist in that form. I have in mind the case where two dwelling houses are knocked into one and the new holiday letting is for larger accommodation or, perhaps some other alterations of a like nature are carried out. Both these cases, though concerned with property not previously let and where alterations are carried out, seem to be potentially difficult, and the difficulty increases the longer the legislation remains on the statute book.

I hope that all those who read our debates and normally make holiday lettings will make every effort to ensure that during this holiday season they achieve a letting and therefore secure the protection for winter lettings, because if for any reason they do not let this summer, the following winter letting may be at risk. This matter needs considerable publicity, and I hope that it will get it.

In the light of the assurances given by the Minister, and in the hope—indeed, the expectation—that it will not be very long before further legislation on this subject will be required and that when that legislation is introduced the difficulty which the Minister has recognised and to which I have referred will be dealt with satisfactorily, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the new clause.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member cannot withdraw the motion; it must be withdrawn by the hon. and learned Member for Thanet, West (Mr. Rees-Davies).

Mr. Rees-Davies

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Motion and clause, by leave, withdrawn.