§
Lords amendment: No. 11, in page 20, line 12, at end insert:—
so long as the person or persons whose actions in Great Britain are said to be in contemplation or furtherance of a trade dispute relating to matters occurring outside Great Britain are likely to be affected in respect of one or more of the matters specified in subsection (1) of this section by the outcome of that dispute.
§ 6.30 p.m.
§ Mr. BoothI beg to move, That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said amendment.
The amendment would restrict immunities for those workers striking in support of overseas workers to cases in which British workers were affected by the outcome of the dispute. It would not cover a strike within a multinational company. We are surprised that the Opposition have not met this point. When we debated it in Committee and on Report they made it clear that they believed that a worker in a multinational company in this country should be able to strike 549 in support of another worker in that company working overseas and should have such protections and immunities for the pursuit or furtherance of a dispute as were open to a dispute in this country. Yet the amendment would restrict the right to those cases in which workers in this country would benefit from the outcome of the dispute—[Interruption.] The amendment would almost wholly destroy the object of Clause 26(3)—[Interruption.] The purpose of international trade union—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. A great deal of conversation is going on. I want to hear the Minister.
§ Mr. BoothThe purpose of international trade union federations, particularly those organised to cover the multinational company, is to enable workers in one country to act in support of those in another when those acting in support have no direct gain to obtain.
Let us suppose, for example, that a company had one factory in France, one in Canada and another in England. If the workers in France were in dispute with the company and the company sought to place the production in the English or Canadian factory, if workers in either of those factories took action to stop that work being placed, they would not stand to benefit directly but would simply be acting to make the French dispute successful. That is the logic of organising unions to cope with multinational situations. The amendment would rob the English or Canadian workers of the limited protection now left in the Bill for workers in trade disputes. To meet the basic requirement of international unionism the amendment must be rejected.
I should make it clear that the Government's opposition does not rest only on the multinational company. We intend that workers who strike in support of workers abroad should have such protections and immunities as are available under our union legislation. The amendment would reward selfishness, protecting strikes in which people engaged in their own interest but denying protection to strikes designed to aid others.
It has now become clear that the system of larger multinational organisations means that the conditions of unionists are 550 threatened not only by the movement of sources of production from one country to another but by the use of means of production in one country to make good the deficit of goods from factories in other countries which are in dispute. If unions are to be organised effectively, they must from time to time call on the support of workers in other countries. The amendment would clearly deny to those who respond to such calls the limited protection left in the Bill. That is why we invite the House to disagree with the Lords.
§ Mr. Christopher Tugendhat (City of London and Westminster, South)We have made it clear throughout the prolonged discussions on the Bill that we are in favour of international trade unionism and of joint action by workers who have the same employer—in other words, multinational companies. We have also made it clear that we accepted that Oppositions did not always draft their amendments as perfectly as Governments and that if the Minister believed that our amendments did not meet the point but was willing to accept our arguments we would leave it to the Government to introduce amendments of their own.
The Government have steadfastly refused to do so. The reason was made clear by the Minister of State in his customarily frank and open fashion, when he pointed out that what the Government were really concerned with was not strikes against multinational companies or by groups of workers sharing the same employer. He made it clear that he interpreted these matters much more widely.
The Minister took an example—we both agreed that it was a far-fetched example—to show that he wanted the immunities and liberties of the Bill extended to British coal miners if they took strike action against the NCB in support of German coal miners striking against a German organisation. Those bodies would have no common link, and no interest in this country would be involved in the German action. That is a hypothetical case, but it illustrates the direction in which the Government wanted to go.
We support international trade unionism and the proposition that employees of a multinational company in one country should be able to pursue common interests with workers in other 551 countries. However, we have always opposed the Government's aim to allow unions to strike with any political object in view, whether or not it was connected with what was going on—
§ Mr. BoothWe have never said that we sought in the Bill to cover political objects of strikes. We made it clear that we wanted the immunities that apply to strikes in furtherance of a trade dispute to cover those acting in furtherance of a dispute abroad but not to those acting in furtherance of a political object abroad.
§ Mr. TugendhatI take the point. It was argued in Committee and elsewhere that matters which in a British context were industrial became political in some countries, and that, in effect, the politics
§ of other countries would be coming on to the shop floors here. The division between us has always been clear in these debates.
§ The best thing for the House is to vote on the matter. It will be a vote of the House of Commons, not the House of Lords. It is because the Government do not have the votes in the House of Commons that they have been losing Divisions on the Bill. If they had the votes in the House of Commons they would be all right. It is because they have not got the votes in the House of Commons that they keep losing.
§ Question put. That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said amendment:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 272, Noes 280.
555| Division No. 107.) | AYES | [6.41 p.m. |
| Archer, Peter | Davis, Clinton (Hackney, C.) | Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Deakins, Eric | Hattersley, Roy |
| Ashley, Jack | Dean, Joseph (Leeds, W.) | Hatton, Frank |
| Ashton, Joe | de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey | Healey, Rt. Hn. Denis |
| Atkins, Ronald | Delargy, Hugh | Heffer, Eric S. |
| Atkinson, Norman | Dell, Rt. Hn. Edmund | Henderson, Douglas (Ab'rd'nsh're, E) |
| Bagier, Gordon, A. T. | Dempsey, James | Hooley, Frank |
| Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) | Doig, Peter | Horam, John |
| Barnett, Joel (Heywood & Royton) | Dormand, J. D. | Howell, Denis (B'ham, Small Heath) |
| Baxter, William | Douglas-Mann, Bruce | Huckfield, Leslie |
| Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood | Duffy, A. E. P. | Hughes, Rt. Hn. Cledwyn (Anglesey) |
| Bennett, Andrew F. (Stockport, N.) | Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth | Hughes, Mark (Durham) |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Edelman, Maurice | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen, North) |
| Bishop, E. S. | Edge, Geoff | Hughes, Roy (Newport) |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Edwards, Robert (W'hampton, S. E.) | Hunter, Adam |
| Boardman, H. | Ellis, John (Brigg & Scunthorpe) | Irvine, Rt. Hn. Sir A. (L'p'l, Edge Hl) |
| Booth, Albert | Ellis, Tom (Wrexham) | Irving, Rt. Hn. Sydney (Dartford) |
| Boothroyd, Miss Betty | English, Michael | Jackson, Colin |
| Bottomley, Rt. Hon. Arthur | Ennals, David | Janner, Greville |
| Boyden, James (Bshop Auckland) | Evans, Fred (Caerphilly) | Jay, Rt. Hn. Douglas |
| Bradley, Tom | Evans, Ioan (Aberdare) | Jeger, Mrs. Lena |
| Broughton, Sir Alfred | Ewing, Mrs. Winifred (Moray & Nairn) | Jenkins, Hugh (W'worth, Putney) |
| Brown, Hugh D. (Glasgow, Provan) | Faulds, Andrew | Jenkins, Rt. Hn. Roy (B'ham, St'fd) |
| Brown, Ronald (H'kney, S. & Sh'ditch) | Fernyhough, Rt. Hn. E. | John, Brynmor |
| Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Springb'rn | Fitch, Alan (Wigan) | Johnson, James (K'ston upon Hull, W) |
| Butler, Mrs. Joyce (H'gey. Wood Green) | Fitt, Gerard (Belfast, W.) | Jones, Barry (Flint, E.) |
| Callaghan, Jim (M'dd'ton & Pr'wch) | Fiannery, Martin | Jones, Gwynoro (Carmarthen) |
| Campbell, Ian | Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) | Jones, Alec (Rhondda) |
| Cant, R. B. | Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | Judd, Frank |
| Carter, Ray | Foot, Rt. Hn. Michael | Kaufman, Gerald |
| Carter-Jones, Lewis | Ford, Ben | Kelley, Richard |
| Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara | Forrester, John | Kerr, Russell |
| Clemitson, Ivor | Fowler, Gerry (The Wrekin) | Kilroy-Silk, Robert |
| Cocks, Michael | Fraser, John (Lambeth, Norwood) | Kinnock, Neil |
| Cohen, Stanley | Freeson, Reginald | Lamborn, Harry |
| Coleman, Donald | Galpern, Sir Myer | Lamond, James |
| Colquhoun, Mrs. M. N. | Garrett, John (Norwich, S.) | Latham, Arthur (Cityof W'minster P'ton) |
| Conlan, Bernard | Garrett, W. E. (Wallsend) | Lawson, George (Motherwell & Wishaw) |
| Cook, Robert F. (Edinburgh, C.) | George, Bruce | Leadbitter, Ted |
| Cox, Thomas | Gilbert, Dr. John | Lee, John |
| Craigen, J. M. (G'gow, Maryhill) | Golding, John | Lever, Rt. He. Harold |
| Crawshaw, Richard | Gourley, Harry | Lewis, Arthur (Newham, N.) |
| Cronin, John | Grant, George (Morpeth) | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) |
| Crosland, Rt. Hn. Anthony | Grant, John (Islington, C.) | Lipton, Marcus |
| Cryer, G. R. | Griffiths, Eddie (Sheffield, Brightside) | Loughlin, Charles |
| Cunningham, G. (Isl'ngt'n, S & F'sb'ry) | Hamilton, James (Bothwell) | Loyden, Eddie |
| Dalyell, Tam | Hamilton, William (Fife, C.) | Lyon, Alexander W. (York) |
| Davidson, Arthur | Hamling, William | Lyons, Edward (Bradford, W.) |
| Davies, Bryan (Enfield, N.) | Hardy, Peter | Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson |
| Davies, Denzil (Llanelli) | Harper, Joseph | McCartney, Hugh |
| Davies, Ifor (Gower) | Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) | MacCormack, Iain |
| McElhone, Frank | Phipps, Dr. Colin | Thomas, D. E. (Merioneth) |
| MacFarquhar, Roderick | Prentice, Rt. Hn. Reg | Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery) |
| McGuire, Michael | Prescott, John | Thorne, Stan (Preston, S.) |
| Maclennan, Robert | Price, Christopher (Lewisham, W.) | Tierney, Sydney |
| McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) | Price, William (Rugby) | Tinn, James |
| McNamara, Kevin | Radice, Giles | Tomlinson, John |
| Madden, M. O. F. | Reid, George | Tomney, Frank |
| Magee, Bryan | Richardson, Miss Jo | Torney, Tom |
| Mallalieu, J. P. W. | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) | Tuck, Raphael |
| Marks, Kenneth | Roberts, Gwilym (Cannock) | Urwin, T. W. |
| Marquand, David | Robertson, John (Paisley) | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne Valley) |
| Marshall, Dr. Edmund (Goole) | Roderick, Caerwyn E. | Walden, Brian (B'm'ham, Ladywood) |
| Mason, Hn. Roy | Rodgers, George (Chorley) | Walker, Harold (Doncaster) |
| Meacher, Michael | Rodgers, William (Teesside, St'ckton) | Walker, Terry (Kingswood) |
| Mellish, Rt. Hn. Robert | Rooker, J. W. | Watkins, David |
| Mendelson, John | Rose, Paul B. | Watt, Hamish |
| Mikardo, Ian | Ross, Rt. Hn. William (Kilmarnock) | Weitzman, David |
| Millan, Bruce | Rowlands, Edward | Wellbeloved, James |
| Miller, Dr. M. S. (E. Kilbride) | Sandelon, Neville | White, James (Glasgow, Pollak) |
| Mitchell, R. C. (S'hampton, Itchen) | Selby, Harry | Whitehead, Phillip |
| Molloy, William | Shaw, Arnold (Redbridge, Ilford, S.) | Whitlock, William |
| Moonman, Eric | Sheldon, Robert (Ashton-under-Lyne) | Wigley, Dafydd (Caernarvon) |
| Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) | Short, Rt. Hn. E. (N'ctle-u-Tyne) | Willey, Rt. Hn. Frederick |
| Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) | Short, Mrs. Renée (W'hamp'n, N. E.) | Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.) |
| Morris, Rt. Hn. John (Aberavon) | Silkin, Rt. Hn. John (L'sham, D'ford) | Williams, Alan Lee (Hvrng, Hchurch) |
| Mulley, Rt. Hn. Frederick | Silverman, Julius | Williams, Rt. Hn. Shirley (H'f'd & St'ge) |
| Murray, Ronald King | Skinner, Dennis | Williams, W. T. (Warrington) |
| Murton, Oscar | Small, William | Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton) |
| Newens, Stanley (Harlow) | Snape, Peter | Wilson, Gordon (Dundee, E.) |
| Oakes, Gordon | Spearing, Nigel | Wilson, Rt. Hn. Harold (Huyton) |
| Ogden, Eric | Spriggs, Leslie | Wilson, William (Coventry, S. E.) |
| O'Halloran, Michael | Stallard, A. W. | Wise, Mrs. Audrey |
| O'Malley, Brian | Stewart, Donald (Western Isles) | Woodall, Alec |
| Orbach, Maurice | Stewart, Rt. Hn. M. (H'sth, Fulh'm) | Woof, Robert |
| Ovenden, John | Stoddart, David (Swindon) | Wrigglesworth, Ian |
| Owen, Dr. David | Stonehouse, Rt. Hn. John | Young, David (Bolton, E.) |
| Padley, Walter | Stott, Roger | |
| Palmer, Arthur | Strang, Gavin | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Park, George (Coventry, N. E.) | Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R. | Mr. James. A. Dunn and |
| Parker, John (Dagenham) | Summerskill, Hn. Dr. Shirley | Mr. Walter Johnson. |
| Parry, Robert | Swain, Thomas | |
| Perry, Ernest G. | Spearing, Nigel | |
| NOES | ||
| Adley, Robert | Churchill, W. S. | Fisher, Sir Nigel |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Clark, A. K. M. (Plymouth, Sutton) | Fookes, Miss Janet |
| Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) | Clark, William (Croydon, S.) | Fowler, Norman (Sutton C'field) |
| Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) | Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | Fox, Marcus |
| Amery, Rt. Hn. Julian | Clegg, Walter | Fraser, Rt. Hn. Hugh (St'fford & Stone) |
| Archer, Jeffrey | Cockcroft, John | Freud, Clement |
| Atkins, Rt. Hn. Humphrey (Spelthorne) | Cooke, Robert (Bristol, W.) | Fry, Peter |
| Awdry, Daniel | Cope, John | Galbraith, Hn. T. G. D. |
| Balniel, Rt. Hn. Lord | Cormack, Patrick | Gardiner, George (Reigate & Banstead) |
| Beith, A. J. | Carrie, John | Gardner, Edward (S. Fylde) |
| Bell, Ronald | Coslain, A. P. | Gibson-Watt, Rt. Hn. David |
| Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Fareham) | Craig, Rt. Hn. William (Belfast, E.) | Gilmour, Rt. Hn. Ian (Ch'sh'&Amsh' m) |
| Benyon, W. | Critchley, Julian | Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) |
| Berry, Hon. Anthony | Crouch, David | Glyn, Dr. Alan |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Crowder, F. P. | Godber, Rt. Hn. Joseph |
| Blaker, Peter | Davies, Rt. Hn. John (Knutsford) | Goodhart, Philip |
| Boardman, Tom (Leicester, S.) | d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Maj.-Gen James | Goodhew, Victor |
| Body, Rchard | Dean, Paul (Somerset, N.) | Goodlad, A. |
| Boscawen, Hon. Robert | Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. | Gorst, John |
| Boyson, Dr. Rhodes (Brent, N.) | Dixon, Piers | Gow, Ian (Eastbourne) |
| Bradford, Rev. R. | Dodds-Parker, Sir Douglas | Gower, Sir Raymond (Barry) |
| Braine, Sir Bernard | Dodsworth, Geoffrey | Grant, Anthony (Harrow, C.) |
| Bray, Ronald | Douglas-Home, Rt. Hn. Sir Alec | Gray, Hamish |
| Brewis, John | Drayson, Burnaby | Grieve, Percy |
| Britten, Leon | du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward | Griffiths, Eldon (Bury St. Edmunds) |
| Brocklebank-Fowler, Christopher | Dunlop, John | Grimond, Rt. Hn. |
| Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) | Durant, Tony | Grist, Ian |
| Bryan, Sir Paul | Dykes, Hugh | Grylls, Michael |
| Buchanan-Smith, Alick | Eden, Rt. Hn. Sir John | Gurden, Harold |
| Buck, Antony | Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Hall, Sir John |
| Budgen, Nick | Elliott, Sir William | Hall-Davis, A. G. F. |
| Bulmer, Esmond | Emery, Peter | Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) |
| Butler, Adam (Bosworth) | Eyre, Reginald | Hannam, John |
| Carlisle, Mark | Fairgrieve, Russell | Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) |
| Carr, Rt. Hn. Robert | Farr, John | Hastings, Stephen |
| Carson, John | Fell, Anthony | Havers, Sir Michael |
| Chalker, Mrs. Lynda | Fenner, Mrs. Peggy | Hayhoe, Barney |
| Channon, Paul | Fidler, Michael | Heath, Rt. Hn. Edward |
| Chataway, Rt. Hn. Christopher | Finsberg, Geoffrey | Henderson, J. S. B. (Dunbartonshire, E.) |
| Heseltine, Michael | Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. | Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) |
| Higgins, Terence | Mayhew, Christopher (G'wh, W'wch, E) | Shaw, Michael (Scarborough) |
| Hill, James A. | Mayhew, Patrick (Royal T'bridge Wells) | Shelton, Wiliam (L'mb'th, Streath'm) |
| Holland, Philip | Meyer, Sir Anthony | Shersby, Michael |
| Hordern, Peter | Miller, Hal (B'grove & R'ditch) | Silvester, Fred |
| Howe, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey (Surrey, E) | Miscampbell, Norman | Sims, Roger |
| Howell, David (Guildford) | Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) | Sinclair, Sir George |
| Howell, Ralph (Norfolk, North) | Moate, Roger | Skeet, T. H. H. |
| Howells, Geraint (Cardigan) | Molyneaux, James | Smith, Cyril (Rochdale) |
| Hunt, John | Money, Ernle | Smith, Dudley (W'wick & L'm'ngton) |
| Hurd, Douglas | Moore, J. E. M. (Croydon, C.) | Spence, John |
| Hutchison, Michael Clark | Morgan-Giles, Rear-Adm. | Spicer, Michael (Worcestershire, S.) |
| Iremonger, T. L. | Morris, Michael (Northampton, S.) | Sproat, Iain |
| Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) | Morrison, Charles (Devizes) | Stainton, Keith |
| James, David | Morrison, Peter (City of Chester) | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| Jenkin, Rt. Hn. P. (R'dge W'std & W'fd) | Mudd, David | Stanley, John |
| Jessel, Toby | Neave, Alrey | Steel, David |
| Johnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead) | Neubert, Michael | Stewart, Ian (Hitchin) |
| Johnston, Russell (Inverness) | Newton, Tony (Braintree) | Stodart, Rt. Hn. A. (Edinburgh, W.) |
| Jones, Arthur (Daventry) | Nicholls, Sir Harmar | Stokes, John |
| Jopling, Michael | Normanton, Tom | Stradling Thomas, John |
| Kaberry, Sir Donald | Nott, John | Tapsell, Peter |
| Kellett-Bowman, Mrs. Elaine | Onslow, Cranley | Taylor, Edward M. (Glgow, C'cart) |
| Kilfedder, James A. | Oppenheim, Mrs. Sally | Taylor, Robert (Croydon, N. W.) |
| Kimball, Marcus | Orr, Capt. L. P. S. | Tebbit, Norman |
| King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) | Page, Rt. Hn. Graham (Crosby) | Thatcher, Rt. Hn. Margaret |
| King, Tom (Bridgwater) | Page, John (Harrow, W.) | Thorpe, Rt. Hn. Jeremy |
| Kirk, Peter | Paisley, Rev. Ian | Townsend, C. D. |
| Kitson, Sir Timothy | Pardoe, John | Trotter, Neville |
| Knight, Mrs. Jill | Parkinson, Cecil (Hertfordshire, S.) | Tugendhat, Christopher |
| Knox, David | Pattie, Geoffrey | Tyler, Paul |
| Lamont, Norman | Percival, Ian | van Straubenzee, W. R. |
| Langford-Holt, Sir John | Peyton, Rt. Hn. John | Vaughan, Dr. Gerard |
| Latham, Michael (Melton) | Pink, R. Bonner | Viggers, Peter |
| Lawrence, Ivan | Price, David (Eastleigh) | Waddington, David |
| Lawson, Nigel (Blaby) | Prior, Rt. Hn. James | Wainwright, Richard (Colne Valley) |
| Lester, Jim (Beeston) | Ralson, Timothy | Wakeham, John |
| Lewis, Kenneth (Rtland & Stmford) | Rathbone, Tim | Welder, David (Clitheroe) |
| Lloyd, Ian (Havant & Waterloo) | Rawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter | Walker, Rt. Hn. Peter (Worcester) |
| Loveridge, John | Redmond, Robert | Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek |
| Luce, Richard | Rees, Peter (Dover & Deal) | Wall, Patrick |
| MacArthur, Ian | Rees-Davies, W. R. | Warren, Kenneth |
| McCrindle, R. A. | Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David (H't'gd'ns're) | Weatherill, Bernard |
| Macfarlane, Neil | Renton, R. T. (Mid-Sussex) | Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William |
| MacGregor, John | Ridley, Hn. Nicholas | Wiggin, Jerry |
| McLaren, Martin | Ridsdale, Julian | Winstanley, Dr. Michael |
| Macmillan, Rt. Hn. M. (Farnham) | Rippon, Rt. Hn. Geoffrey | Winterton, Nicholas |
| McNair-Wilson, Michael (Newbury) | Roberts, Michael (Cardiff, N.-W.) | Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard |
| McNair-Wilson, Patrick (New Forest) | Roberts, Wyn (Conway) | Woodhouse, Hn. Christopher |
| Madel, David | Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks) | Worsley, Sir Marcus |
| Marshall, Michael (Arundel) | Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight) | Young, Sir George (Ealing, Acton) |
| Marten, Neil | Rosel, Hugh (Hornsey) | |
| Mather, Carol | Rost, Peter (Derbyshire, S.-E.) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Maude, Angus | Sainsbury, Tim | Mr. Paul Hawkins and |
| Maudling, Rt. Hn. Reginald | St. John-Stevas, Norman | Mr. Spencer Le Marchant. |
| Mawby, Ray | Scott-Hopkins, James |
§ Question accordingly negatived.
556§ Subsequent Lords amendments agreed to.