HC Deb 29 July 1974 vol 878 cc22-3
44. Mr. Mikardo

asked the Minister for the Civil Service how many officers supplied by security companies are at present engaged in guarding Government Departments; what is the weekly charge for each of these persons; and what is the weekly wage of a security guard in the direct employ of Her Majesty's Government.

Mr. Robert Sheldon

No central record is kept of contracts with security firms and information about the staff numbers and charges could not be obtained without disproportionate cost to public funds.

The basic pay of directly-employed security guards is £24.07 to £25.25 per week. In addition they receive payments averaging £8.70 per week for shift work and Sunday duty and a cost-of-living supplement of £2.40 per week.

Mr. Mikardo

I appreciate that my hon. Friend has not been able to do all his homework. Is he aware that other people have done homework on the question and know that the number of security guards hired from companies is large and is increasing rapidly, and that the average charge to the Government for them is between two and three times the charge of a security guard employed directly by the Government? Is not this a gross example of the "lump" system to which our party is opposed? If the Government cannot recruit enough guards of their own at present wage rates, why do they not offer wage rates at which they could recruit them and save a great deal of money?

Mr. Sheldon

My hon. Friend puts his finger on one of the important points here, which is the rates of pay. There is an obvious need to improve the recruitment of guards. Guards for individual Ministries are a matter for the individual departmental Minister. I am deeply concerned about the matter, and consultations are taking place on how recruitment can he improved.

Mr. Dalyell

Is it not less than satisfactory that no central record is kept? As a matter of policy, when it comes to guarding both Government installations and oil installations, which concern many of us, may we have an assurance—not necessarily today—that preference will be given to guarding by the police and not by hired security firms?

Mr. Sheldon

The Civil Service Department is responsible for giving general advice on departmental expenditure on the services of private security firms, but the negotiation of individual contracts is a matter for each Department.